thanks frank and rikki for your responses,it seems more so now, that there are good alternatives with the upto date software ,rather than change keyboards every year or two,just to have a few upgrades and possibly lose some functions,but it does look like some of the manufacturers,liontracks, and wersi and 1 or 2 others are going down a similar route as you,it would be nice to hear how these new keyboard systems compare with yours once they become established ,mike