Originally posted by Diki:
Look it seems that others are as determined to miss MY points as they think I miss theirs... 
Next logical step is the sax player playing to tracks, and singing (got a few that do that, here), then the next step is a singer using tracks including a sax track, and then the NEXT step is a DJ.... I kind of assumed you might see the progression.Where your theory breaks down in this instance is that I'm not suggesting alternate types of entertainment couldn't work. I'm just saying from playing at this club for 11 years, I can say that it hasn't worked, at least not yet.
Of course, it's OK for YOU to get indignant that your contribution to their evening's enjoyment might have got downplayed a bit, but try looking at it from your drummer's, or your guitarist's or your bass player's perspective... Their contribution got nixed in its' entirety. But, of course, what YOU play is the ONLY important part, isn't it..? Those other parts can get replaced, no problem, eh? 
No musical value in it, at all. 
Several years ago my drummer pulled me aside and said "Look, if you're not here, this doesn't work. You're the thing...your voice, the way you play, your ways onstage, etc. You can plug in other guys around you and you can still pull it off but you're the reason these people are here."
I've been playing arrangers for 5-6 years. It was 2 years, I think, before I began to use the arranger based duo as a replacement for the 4 piece. I did so only when the 2 guys (Bass/Drummer) informed me they didn't want to drive an hour or didn't want to play on certain nights of the week. Rather than lose the account myself as I'm the only one who does this for a living, I switched to the Duo. I didn't initiate that-they did. This is my business, so it only made sense...
You see, it's all fun and games until someone suggests that YOU are as replaceable as your other musicians. Then all hell breaks loose! But, instead of looking for every specious argument to justify your own contribution (no attempt to acknowledge that I DID say that a DJ to do the gig would have to be as good as you at selecting material for your crowd), and a hare brained attempt to put ME down by suggesting that I couldn't do the gig, which I'll admit, unless you had charts, I couldn't, as I don't play that kind of music (but I did, at many ballrooms in England in my youth in ten piece bands... OTOH, you'd fall as flat on your face as me were you to try to do a gig doing the music I do - I doubt you've even HEARD or Sly and Robbie, or Black Uhuru ), perhaps a serious attempt to talk about the issues could have occurred... Assumptions...You had no way of knowing this but I've actually opened up for Black Uhuru, Steel Pulse, the Clash, and several other very different type bands back in the early 80's. The band I was in back then was the "go to" band in Pittsburgh when someone wanted a local act to open up for a big act like them. We were an original based ska/funk/rock band that toured through PA, OH, MI, IN, WV, MIN, IL...I've also done Commercials work (jingles) as well as several professional productions of various Musicals back in the 80's. I also played bass and sang lead in a Trio I formed in the late 80's, that also played originals. (Think REM meets English Beat)I've been really lucky that I've got to do a lot of very different things musically. Point being, while I wouldn't excel at it like you do...I don't think I'd fall flat on my face...
It isn't just what songs I played...what DJ in the world will sing as their main thing? None...they have karaoke a few Fridays a month, and an entirely different crowd shows up. A DJ/KJ can't do what I do and I surely don't want to do what they do...
I said I knew of no other bass players that could do the gig. Is there a player in Dayton I don't know about that might do great? Sure, but with the poor results from previous attempts to use a sub, I'm not dying to go down that road.
But, I guess, to suggest that a keyboard player is as replaceable as a drummer is some kind of blasphemy, here at the bastion of replacing everyone else! Trouble is, we are... Heck, half of us are only too happy to DJ a gig, mp3 players being the hot, must have items in our arrangers these days. And there was I, thinking arrangers are actually a musical instrument! Silly me... Not trying to put anyone down here but I've never taken a DJ job since I started this full time. I'm not set up for it and don't really want to do that.
My basic premise wasn't intended to YOU personally, Bill. I am sure you put on a hell of a show, everyone leaves happy, yada yada yada... But, on a thread that started out as a reflection by some that arranger playing no longer gets their juices flowing, and a discussion about whether playing live can get some of that back, to basically crow about how well your gig went WITHOUT your regular players kind of begs the extrapolation, IMO.
You seem to be minimizing the experience the audience had. You base most of your comments on a players perspective. That's fine, but it needs to be pointed out.
Why is an instance where a arranger player becomes liberated from dropping other live musicians any less applicable to the original thread? I've chronicled my frustrations with the band being unable/unwilling to rehearse, etc. If it works one way, can't it also work in this other way as well?
You say that no DJ has succeeded with your crowd so far... all well and good, Apparently, no other live band has, either. But do your show with an arranger and a sax player, all is well. Strikes me that material, familiarity with exactly what the crowd wants is what is scoring, here. Which, I'm afraid, definitely brings up the possibility that, should a DJ appear that DOES do the job, or a singer with tracks (let's face it, are you saying that, if push comes to shove and you can't play any more, you WOULDN'T do the gig just with tracks if they asked you?) came in and knew your crowd, what is there but simply a change of DEGREE in going down from a full band to a duo, then a solo, then a DJ?
Of the various other acts that rotate through the schedule over recent years, there is another band that is very well regarded. A 5 pc., where the youngest guy is in his mid 70's...
Familiarity isn't what's scoring...I played 12-16 songs they've never heard me perform and they danced to all of them. In general, yes, I stayed within a certain parameter...Its not like I threw some Lady Gaga at them, lol...
Would I do the gig just singing over backing tracks? Seriously, no I wouldn't. I had major, major reservation about even buying an arranger because of how it might look. I never wanted to be one who would kick in a midi file and basically become irrelevant to the tune. My crowds respect people who can play. So, as I learned how to perform with an arranger, I made sure I stayed away from midis. I want them to know that I'm playing every chord change, lead, etc. Do I have a helluva lot of help? No question about it.
The biggest difference to me would be found going from a Solo to a DJ...
I'm NOT singling you out here, Bill. This is an issue that has long worried me, watching full bands gradually get squeezed out, now watching even duos get squeezed out, even soloists getting replaced by DJ's and cheap karaoke acts. Once a venue realizes it CAN make money by cutting the entertainment budget, few choose not to...
You're right to be concerned. The band and I had a client about an hour from here where we played every month for years to big crowds and packed dance floors. Trouble is, this crowd doesn't drink much at all. So, the Clubs get next to no bar business. After an annual election, the Trustees decided that there wouldn't be any more Senior dances on Fridays. They would bring in younger rock bands to beef up the bar business. Funny thing is, though-they couldn't match the competition in their city on Friday nights and the turnout was way less than expected. They then tried to put all the old acts back on the schedule and get the old people to return. They pissed off so many people, that it was never as good as it was originally. The only complain they had was that the bar sales weren't good enough. What was I to do about that?
Imagine what you would have to say to your regular guys, that have stuck by you for years (as much as you think you are carrying THEM!), if the venue turns round and says they would prefer to just have the duo from now on, due to cost. Now imagine it being said to YOU, were a DJ to succeed with your crowd...
You see the slippery slope, here?
I've thought about that a lot. I've been getting advice here at the SZ from some friends to drop the band and don't look back. You don't seem impressed that I've put up with a less than thrilling musical situation just so the band can stay together. I could've switched to a Duo a few years ago, very likely succeeded, but I didn't. In the big picture, that deserves to be at least mentioned.
If the client said they needed to go to a duo for financial reasons, I'd argue that the band should get to finish out the year. Possibly negotiate a lower price within reason. I'd also ask the guys what they wanted to do. They know its coming...its just a matter of how long do I continue to use the band. When it does, there will be several factors why its come to an end after 11-12 years or so. Economics will be a large part of it as this dwindling, non bar spending crowd shrinks. There will be creative reasons, that I've cited as well.
With no disrespect meant towards DJ's, they can't do what I do. They may get the gig someday, but that doesn't change anything except I'll either find a different room to play for or I'll enjoy my family.
------------------
Bill in Dayton
[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 01-12-2010).]
[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 01-12-2010).]
Previous Topic
Index
