I said nothing about salesperson. You must have put on the wrong glasses...or made an assumption.
Please do not put words in my mouth...it is rude.

Oh ok. I get it now. You're opinion is ok... mine is rude. You talk just like a salesperson, tell me that you're not one, then go on to state that you've demonstrated " Yamahas, Rolands" etc for 30 years ( I don't need any glasses to see that.. you wrote it ).

You're assumption ( clearly stated twice already at least ) is that I don't play correctly because I don't accept or play within the limitations of something that I feel is built like a piece of junk. That isn't a bit rude ?

It's pretty easy to insult one another from behind a computer kb, but this isn't getting us anywhere.... so you win Ian. I'm outta this thread.

AJ

AJ

Thanks AJ...I knew you'd understand.
As it is said here on Cape Breton Island(the most beautiful place in the world),
"Brìgh gach cluiche gu dheireadh".
(The essence of a game is at its end.)
Ian

Ian,
All I got to say is--learn to use a board within it's limitations all you want, but there is a VERY FINE line between using a board within it's limitations and it flat out NOT being able to do something.

Sugarcoat it all you want, the FACT still remains that Yamaha's contruction of those wheels if of VERY poor quality. One SHOULD NOT have to feel the need to play ever so gently because of the fear that it will break. It should be STURDY and WELL CONSTRUCTED so that it doe NOT get in the way or hinder ones playing ability.

Well Peace Out!

Squeak

Thanks Squeak,

Like most musicians who make their living with their keyboards,I have to look at cost versus profit.Other members in this forum that use the 3k for working will probably relate to this aspect.

Buying an expensive keyboard like a Tyros cuts in on my profit,and really does no more than a PSR-3000 for my type of work. I understand the technique you use for certain expressive playing,and with a lot of practice,I was able to get it close enough to live with it.

Sure,I would prefer more robust wheels like the Tyros,but the word"practical" comes into effect pretty quickly when it comes time to pay the bills.So I do the only thing possible with the given limitations of the instrument.....I adapt as best I can.

In Cape Breton,we have a saying in Gaelic "Is uaisle am breid na toll. (A patch is better than a hole).

Yamaha pays me like my other employers...by what I produce in as far as putting the instrument through it's paces and making it look as easy and non-intimidating to a potential user as possible...I am never allowed to discuss price. Same goes for Roland,Korg or if I'm employed by the owner of the local music store.When working in a store,I sometimes play all three brands which can be quite a learning experience in it's own right with all the different controllers etc.

Hopefully Yamaha will respond to complaints (yes,I complain too....rather stubbornly and very loudly, as you probably would guess) and the 3k replacement (due out in late June in Canada)will have better wheels and an aftertouch keyboard.Now,that would be a real "patch".

All the best to you,

Ian

I'm deffinitely with SQUEAK on this one. The pitch and mod wheels are extrememly limiting on the 3000. You simply do not have the control and flexibility with them that you have on the Tyros. (Before you quick-fire back, please listen to some of my guitar recordings on this site.)

Regarding cost/profit. I find that although the Tyros has increased my cost, it has by far more, incrased my profit. So has the $5000 (or more) I spend per year on advertising...

The more $ you spend, the more $ you'll make!

Chony

Hi Chony,
I hope no one feels I am defending the wheels on the 3k...I'm not.
I'm saying,if it must be used than you must be flexible enough to adapt.
I have two 3k's...one is a very necessary backup if you play often and have steady gigs....downtime with a keyboard is very costly...and you could lose potential gigs as well.....although the 3k is the very model of reliability(for a cheaply made instrument?)
I could never afford two Tyros or a Tyros and a 3k(backup).And,I just don't feel the Tyros is worth the extra money...I had one from Yamaha on my sample account for several months before I made the decision to get the 3ks.It was very nice,but very overpriced.
I don't spend anything on advertising...never did...I couldn't possibly find more time...I'm very busy with demo and restaurant and studio gigs.I find gigging itself as a great form of advertising and one job very often begets another.
I also find it more profitable to be a little hard to get...at least it works for me.
Ian

Ian,
my hat off to you!
You held your calm while some were coming down on you during this thread. Ok, I'm not a native english speking person, but I couldn't find anything here that was meant as criticism to anyone here. I read your post as 'generally speaking' sort of. A true gentleman, Ian!

Roy-Andrè
www.royandre.no

changed my mind

[This message has been edited by manic2257 (edited 01-08-2006).]

Roy,
Well to be honest I don't see how anyone could't be offended by his statement. His word choice was poor. That statement in general said that "people who can't get the pitchbend effect we're wanting and breaking wheels" is a result of them not using them correctly. Again poor word choice. I always take into account that one thing can be typed one way and the poster meaning something else. AJ (is a very well rounded individual and I've talked to him on numerous occassions inside and outside of the synthzone. He took it the same way....

Things have lightened up a bit here which is great considering all the hostility there was over the past few months. I'm glad that Nigel made the Yamaha Arranger section, because I along with quite a few others I've talked to strongly feel the general arranger section was very "biased" towards Yamaha arrangers, and when someone said anything negative about them it got ugly.

I said something negative about the poor construction quality of Yamaha's arrangers, and a member posts:

---------------------------------------------
People who use the pitch/mod wheels incorrectly are bound to experience problems.
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Butter it up and serve it with tea if you like, it still is a negative remark that is too "generalized".

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-08-2006).]

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-08-2006).]