WHY did Yamaha name the following Tyros styles as 6-8?

Soul6-8
6-8SlowRock1
6-8SlowRock2
6-8ModernBallad
6-8Orchestral

These styles appear (to me) to be 4/4 with a 12/8 (triplet) feel, not 6/8.

This led me to investigating the "how to" of figuring out the difference between 3/4, 6/8, and 12/8 time signature feels. I found the following website link (including MP3 samples) both educational & interesting:
Difference Between Time Signatures: 3/4, 6/8, 12/8

Ok folks, I'm interested in hearing from others here regarding the above Yamaha Styles. Do you feel they're correctly labeled as 6/8?

Scott

I know nothing of music theory and found the article interesting. I have a couple of Yamaha styles called 68Modern and 68SlowRock which do not have the characteristic three beat bass. One style, 6/8 Soul, does have the three beat bass and one style, 6/8Blues, does not. He gives the example of Chicago's Color My World for a 6/8 song. Although I think it sounds fine when I play it with any of these styles, it does sound best with my 6/8 Soul style with the three beat bass.

The style time signature is of course compound 2/4 (bear in mind the restrictions of the style engine in the first place) - the definition of what that time signature means is debatable concerning modern pop music and style management - indeed one can look at classical compositions and ask the same question - e.g Why does Bach (J.S) define 3/8 against 3/4 or 6/4 against 6/8 (not to mention 4/16 or 9/8 when the sub-rhythm is predominantly perceptually different to our more contemporary hearing).

I would expect the inclusion of 6/8-defined styles to be relevant to market research, carried out amongst various subsidiaries, within Yamaha Corporation's naming decisions, no doubt sourced by equivalent references.

Just my own supposition

All the Best

Jacob

Well said! I applaud your command of "English", as we call it in the colonies.

DonM

Hi Jacob: I don't know the reason, but I'm not entirely convinced its market research, because I believe these styles are pretty much universally recognized (at least among most pop-rock-blues musicians) as 12/8, or 4/4 styles with a 12/8 (triplet) feel, with 6-8SlowRock1 & 6-8SlowRock2 suitable for those classic 12/8 rock ballads.

Each of these styles include four quarter note beats per measure, confirmed by the fact that the keyboard's metronome light flashes four times/measure. In addition, the sub-rhythm of each quarter note contains a triplet (three 8th notes) of which adds up to: 12 beats per measure, not 6 as suggested by the 6/8 style name assigned by Yamaha. 6/8 would only represent 1/2 of the style's measure.

I realize this debate may appear overly academic & pedantic, but Yamaha's 6/8 style naming conventions here have caught the attention (and quibble) of more than quite a few of my gigging musician associate friends as well. - Scott

Hey Scott

6/8 seems to be pretty much the norm from what I've seen on different instruments including home organs. Yes, the fast 6/8 meaning 2 beats per measure is what I relate to the most. As a matter of fact, when I first saw styles listed as 12/8 I was wondering what I was going to be hearing. As a former drummer I also thought of it as 6/8. Is one more right than the other? Good question.

I learned as a kid that fast 6/8 is 2 beats a measure ( 2 sets of eighth note triplets) and slow 6/8 is 6 beats each eighth note getting the count played typically more slowly. As far as how Yamaha counts it off in the window, I never really looked, just go by feel.

My 2 Deutsche Marks worth.

Scott

[This message has been edited by Scott Langholff (edited 08-04-2005).]

Every copy of "Color My World" that I've seen is written in 4/4 with a 12/8 feel. You could write the melody in 6/8, but it would look funny. Even the words have a 4/4-12/8 feel. For the most part 6/8 is used in a lot of marches. The old pop slow songs of the '50's are 4/4 with a 12/8 feel. If you want to divide the measures of "Color My World" into 6/8, it's technically correct but the end result is still 4/4-12/8. Later, Ray

6/8, 9/8, 12/8... are 'compound' time signatures. This means that the beat is a dotted quarter note, (or a dotted crotchet). 2/4, 3/4, 4/4 are 'simple' time signatures, where the beat is a quarter note (crotchet).

Thus if a piece is in 6/8, there will be six eighth notes (quavers) in the bar, divided into two beats of a dotted quarter note. In 9/8 there will be three compound beats, in 12/8 there will be four, etc

You can divide a simple time signature into triplets, and this is how style programming works. In the case of 12/8 styles (and technically with 6/8) a 4/4 time signature is used, and each quarter note beat is divided into 3 eighth note triplets. The result is then exactly the same as 12/8, ie: four pulses divided into three.

The BIG and significant difference between 6/8 and 12/8 on an arranger keyboard is that the fills in the 12/8 styles would seem to last for 2 measures (bars) of 6/8. But otherwise how would you tell the difference? One bar of 12/8 would just seem like 2 bars of 6/8. However, if you think of the "average" 50's Rock Ballad, the cycle of the style often fits more with 4 pulses to the measure than with two.

In the case of a 6/8 March, where there is a definite two beat feel, these are still programmed in most arrangers in 4/4 (ie 12/8) and in this case you really get two measures for the price of one. Also the fact that fills last in effect for two measures seems to work better at a faster tempo (ie 120-ish).

Whatever, what you get on most arrangers is 12/8, created using 4/4 and each simple beat divided into eighth note triplets.

It is either actually 12/8, or in the case of a style which is really 6/8 you just get two real measures for what is displayed as one measure on the instrument, and the most obvious musical result of this is that fills seem to be two measures long.

Thanks, Scott Yee:

As always, your posts are informative and thought provoking. When blended with the subtle humor of Don Mason and U.D., this forum is always the source for interesting reading. That reminds me, we have not seen many posts from Uncle Dave lately. I hope he hasn't come down with rolling pin fever.

RICE (The Lone Arranger)

Many thanks for the compliment.
Btw, your synthzone member name keeps conjuring up this classic age old San Francisco treat:
PLAY MP3

Scott

What happens when you actually need a real 6/8? http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/010883.html
Starkeeper