Scott
I must agree with Gary and Dave in this issue.
Performance assistant is a new feature to enrich your records.
Just a question:
When you sing a song with the vocal harmony, your audience is listening a false trio or quarteto of Scott voices.
For me is the same thing.
Harmony is an achievement as well as performance assistant.
Just a tip:
Performance assistant just runs with mids recorded by Yamaha arrangers(Not suitable for commercial mids)

Chico


[This message has been edited by ChicoBrasil (edited 11-06-2004).]

Floyd, many thanks for the compliments, though I'd hardly consider myself in the same league as many of the fine pro musicians or music teaching professionals of the day.



Hi Chico. Sorry, but I don't believe this to be the SAME thing at all. When using the vocal harmonizer, we're actually triggering the harmonies with our own voice singing specific pitches.

I believe a more fitting comparison would be if one used a vocal PITCH CORRECTION processor to correct the notes, no matter 'WHAT' pitch you sing.

Arranger tools which assist professional OMB musicians to achieve results not humanly possible (with one person) is one thing, but to utilize these features to SUBSTITUTE for what can & should be played live is another.

As I stated previously, I'm all for tools that assist us, but I draw the line when it comes to features which require little or no music skill. Once this happens, the public's respect for musicians and musicianship will only continue to diminish.

Scott

TAlk about entertainment value, a few years ago I was a performing musician turned performing event DJ(weddings and parties). I got to learn the value of entertainment in a hurry, anyone could play records. I learned a whole new appreciation for the entertainment side of what we do.

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qqqwq@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 11-06-2004).]

[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 11-06-2004).]

"Use it...don't abuse it"...that's what I think is appropriate, at least for me.

The reality is, it would be difficult, if not impossible to make a living without using an arranger. Every person needs to choose thir place on this slippery slope.

For me, I use an arranger, but no sequences, MP3, etc. I want to play as much live as possible. But, I'm not an entertainer, so, if entertaining is your primary thing, you do what it takes.

At the end of the night, I need to feel like I have been true to my craft. I need to keep learning and adapting, but always keep musicianship first. That's my choice, not necessarily the way others do it.

Russ

Let me add a short comment to this: fact is that the keyboard makes this possible and you may as well make use of it.
I sincerely don't believe it will improve your real playing, but that is up to you. Play like this before an audience? Why not! I use styles and the first thing my daughter said was: do the people who composed this (!) get paid when you perform?
OK, I still have to play the chords and melody and sometimes programm the multipads.
And if I would compose my own style, nobody would know I made it myself.
If I make a mistake (chord, note or otherwise) no audience will praise me for it. They come to hear music and I doubt if they care at all who makes the music (unless you have fans).
Anyway: I won't use the function we are talking about - I tried to, but I just can't because it confuses me. If I can't play it, I leave it or study long and hard.

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drdalet

[This message has been edited by drdalet (edited 11-06-2004).]

Scott I understand your point but also that of UD&Gary.
But with all respect…you guys are pro's.
If you can't play nobody will hire you.
But don't forget that arrangers are also bought by amateurs. People like me who play only at home and have lots of fun with all those gadgets that arrangers have inside.
I'm not a good player but enjoy every minute I can play in my spare time.
I can't sing either but have lots of fun with my VH and suddenly I can sing (although my wife and daughter laugh every time because they only hear my real voice and not what I'm hearing at my headphone).
But hey ...I forget all the problems in the world when I'm in front of my keyboard.
After a day work I like to relax and the best way for me is playing my keyboard or listen to
other music.
Like John Miles sing…Music was my first love and it will be my last.

Jan

I must admit, I've played the acoustic piano for over 20 years now... I've taken a few years of lessons and theory, but mostly learnt by ear. I kind of see Scott's point in that the music assist in front of an audience would feel like 'faking it' for me too. Maybe this is just because I learned to play on the acoustic? Who knows.

All I know is I can't see and hear musician's from a non-musician's perspective. Sometimes I really wish I could! I know one thing for certain, if a member of my audience during a performance came over and realised I could press any key and it automatically was in the correct pitch, I'd probably melt off the stage out of total embarrassment! It'd be like a Milli Vanilli moment or something...

Carrie

Dave, I of course fully realize that playing an auto accompaniment keyboard is not 100% live. I DIDN'T intend to infer that it was. What I was trying to convey is that whatever notes I DO play on the kb are 100% live, and NOT merely FAKING it (aka: pretending), as utilizing the 'performance assist' feature apparently provides.

Uncle Dave, I'm suprised that you didn't come to my defense regarding this issue as I clearly remember you yourself having repeatedly preached against FAKING it in performance, as evidenced by the following comments you made on this previous thread: http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/005976.html





Uncle Dave, what you stated above is really NO DIFFERENT than what I'm preaching here about FAKING (pretending to play) keyboard solos. For home recreation, the performance feature can be fun, but I really WISH people didn't try to pass this off in a professional paid music performance situation as well. As you stated yourself: "There is dignity in performing live to backing trax .... but there is NONE in pretending."

Scott

I'm with you on that point !
I just think you were a little defensive about the arranger aspect, which is a huge compromise, no matter how you use it.

You know I'm a fan of technology, but a bigger fan of heart and soul ( NOT the song ). The important thing is that we convey a message to the audience. The tools are here to help us get the message accross.

Scott, you're a dedicated performer and I know you take your craft seriously. I just think sometimes you forget that the arranger is at least 1/2 the act. The bass and drums are so much more important than any piano part ever will be in a dance or show situation. Unless it's a concert venue, and then, I doubt that an arranger would even be used.

I've come to view midi files as a more legitimate "means to an end" than arranger styles. They please the corwd more and leave room for me to be the piano/guitar player....same as if I was in a real band.
The styles get old fast, but the original sequence of a popular song will always be accepted by thge masses.

I totally concur regarding this point. Music without heart and soul is meaningless to me.



As any hi quality pro live backup band rhythm section would, I always make sure that the auto accompaniment parts serve primarily as 'window dressing' to ENHANCE the front man: ME , and never use it to hide behind, or let it overshadow my live vocal or keyboard performance.



That's interesting to hear, especially since most of my arranger gigs ARE indeed concert type venues. My primary draw is pouring my heart and soul out with my vocals, utilizing my arranger keyboard playing skills acting as the pianist in an intimate combo setting (primarily drums & bass).



Midi files are the "more legitimate"(?) means to an end than arranger styles?!"

Dave, I'm afraid, on THIS POINT, we have to part our ways and agree to disagree.
For my performance specialty: intimate lounge cabaret & concert performance work, I find arranger auto accompaniment mode performance the most appropriate. For a dance bar/club scene, where the audience comes with the primary purpose of dancing, utilizing & playing along to midi files may be the right ticket, but for a OMB acoustic combo setting (primarily drums, bass & piano) in an intimate lounge venue situation, playing the arranger kb in auto accompaniment offers spontaneous creative performance flexibility & freedom NOT possible when you're locked into playing along to a pre-sequenced midi file. I rarely perform the same song the same way each time. This not only includes how I sing it (vocal interpretation), or what improvised keyboard solo I might play on that tune that nite, but also what chords, chord voicings, and/or chord substitions I choose to use either, as it depends on the mood of the moment. This type of artistic freedom is what I consider the creative magic (aka: heart and soul) of music performance that's not possible when one utilizes a midi file. I do use midi files occasionally though, for situations when I want to get out into the audience and sing my heart out.

Ok, I've said my peace now. At least everyone knows not only 'where' I stand on this issue, but 'why' as well.

Scott