Today I heared in a keyboardshop in the
Netherlands a Genesys Pro.
With a good PA it sounds impressing.When you
are looking for a new arrangerkeyboard take
a look at the Genesys Pro!

I do not have the PRO but do have the regular Genesys and enjoy it more day by day.


Jerry

For those that haven't seen the genesys online video or heard the genesys PRO audio demo, here is the link: http://www.generalmusic.us/Pro/genesysPro.htm

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Paul Davis
Generalmusic
Generalmusic.US

Interesting, Hmmmm. There is nary a Genesys Pro anywhere. In fact I couldn't find one anywhere! ie., Sam Ash, Guitar Center, Music123.com, Zzounds.com, etc., etc., etc. The Genesys Pro must be an extreme Niche market made available only after an excruciating search by a potential customer by which time he or she or most people would be fed up and start looking for an Arranger that a Major Music Retailer or Major Online Music Store would actually have in stock.

Sorry Paul D. I know it's not your fault.

But don't you guys WANT to sell the Genesys Pro? How can you sell it in quantity and people actually buy it unless you make it available to the masses? Or have you given up already after hearing Korg was releasing the new Pa1X/Pro? "Okay guys, here's the deal. Korg is releasing this new Arranger that is suppose to the the Mother of all Arrangers and it may be actually true. What we at GEM will do is sit back and hold back on the marketing and production of the Genesys Pro and test the waters to see if the rumors are true about this Pa1X/Pro that Korg is releasing at Summer NAMM. If they turn out to be true were gonna be up a creek without a paddle fellas. So we'll hold off on marketing until we confirm one way or the other if the new Pa1X/Pro IS the Mother of all Arrangers, and if it is; say bye bye to the Genesys Pro and we'll have to bust a gut and get back to the drawing board and come up with something that will compete." In the mean time your pink-slips will be waiting for a number of you when you get off from work today. We'll call you when we have a product that will make GEM proud again and can compete with these Mother of All Arrangers we keep hearing about. Until then don't forget to use your severance pay and unemployment checks wisely.

Good hearted, good natured fun but maybe what I'm saying strikes a "Chord"? "C" ya!

Best regards,
Mike

PS: I may be full of hot air but it's better to vent it in a healthy way than to stay steamed up inside. Not that I'm mad, I'm just making a point. Besides the weather here is hot and muggy anyway so forgive me if I let off some of 'my' own steam to alleviate at least SOME of the "heat". lol

Best regards,
Mike

Just because it is the mother of all arrangers, doesn't mean that you will see it at all Guitar Centers, actual locations where you and touch and feel and play the instrument. I have followed this forum for years, as well as others, and can tell you that honestly that what you find in a catalog isn't what you will buy. Most want to play the instrument. Now companies like Yamaha haven't been able to get their high end arranger into every store where people can play, do you honestly think that a company that doesn't have a name here in the USA have a chance to get our instrument into every store.... Let me answer this for you... NO!!!!! We have chosen to sell our instrument to dealers that would actually display, demonstrate, and Support our instrument.

Now this doesn't mean that all Catalog stores don't have staff and talent that a smaller store does, but they are harder to find. Stores like Kayes Music, George Kaye we have found a better fit for our products.

High end arrangers are Niche products, I know this is hard for all those like myself that love them, but it is true. Arranger instruments unless they are a digital piano, are not big sellers in the USA.

I would love to see our arranger instruments in every store and sell millions as I would benefit from this, but I don't think that this is a reality.


Ferrier and Lamberganni are know as sports cars, and you can't find them as easily as a Ford, Chevy or even Toyota, but that doesn't mean that they are less of a sports car. Generalmusic is an instrument brand used serious musicians like
Keith Emerson
(Emerson, Lake & Palmer)

David Copperfield

Roy Bittan
(keyboardist with Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band, David Bowie, Dire Straits, Stevie Nicks, Peter Gabriel, Meatloaf, Lou Reed, Bob Seger and Jackson Browne)

George Duke

David Goldblatt
(keyboardist with Mark Isham, John Patitucci, Frank Gambale, Vinnie Colaiuta, Gino Vannelli)

Laura Karpman
(Spielberg)

T Lavitz
(keyboardist with Dixie Dregs)

Tommy Mars
(Keyboardist with Frank Zappa)



Ian McLagan
(founding member of Small Faces - with Rod Stewart and Ronnie Wood. Other credits include The Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, Melissa Etheridge, Taj Mahal, Lucinda Williams, Bonnie Rait, Buddy Guy and The Everly Brothers).

Jason Miles
(Sting, Chaka Khan, Wayne Shorter, and more)

Renato Neto
(keyboardist with Sheila E, Marco Mendoza, Steve Wonder, Gilberto Gil, Roberto Carlos and Oleta Adams)

Otmaro Ruiz
(composer, arranger, pianist with Gino Vannelli, Robbie Robertson, Jon Anderson, David Weckl, Franc Gambale, Charlie Haden, Arturo Sandoval)

Rick Serrate

Darrell Smith
(keyboardist, producer with Herbie Hancock, Maxwell, Brian McKnight, Impromp2, Gerald Albright and Doc Powell)

Mark Ellis Stephens
(Keyboardist with Chaka Kahn, Diana Ross)

Loft Studio's

John Tesh

J.T. Thomas
(keyboardist with Bruce Hornsby, Tracy Chapman, Rita Coolidge, Sparks and Captain Beefheart)

Gino Vannelli
(Cher, U2)

Joe Vannelli
(producer, composer, arranger. Lifelong collaborator with brother Gino Vannelli).

Rick Wakeman
(YES)

Larry Williams
(keyboardist with Lee Ritenour, Dave Grusin, Michael Jackson, Eric Clapton, Big Mountain, Go West, Manhattan Transfer, Al Jarreau and Sheila E.)

These are huge names in the industry. Does the fact that they didn't find them at the huge catalog mean they wouldn't buy them... NO.... as those looking for a arranger insturment. Huge catalog store are looking for mass market, those that are looking for a high end arranger instrument are not "Mass Market". Seek out and play these instruments and then chose. No matter what brand it is, the high end arrangers are hard to find to play and listen.



------------------
Paul Davis
Generalmusic
Generalmusic.US

I HAVE sought them out. I tried several times to arrange to see one. No success whatsoever. George Kaye is thousands of miles from me.
Same is true for Ketron.
Yamaha Tyros is just down the street. I know I can live with a Tyros. Don't know about the others, and there seems to be no way to find out short of ordering one sight unseen, which will not happen.
DonM

Sorry if I upset you Paul. I didn't mean too. I was just trying to get your attention I guess. I'm sure the Genesys Pro is an awesome sounding Keyboard. I've listened to all the Demos on your site and they sound very good. But sometimes a demo does not reflect the actuality of an instrument's true sound. In the case of the Genesys Pro I would not be able to determine that because I wouldn't be able to play it in person because.... well, you know.

Yamaha is at least making an effort to get their High End Arrangers into the Major retail outlets and also has them on the Major online stores. If the Genesys Pro were at least in some of the Major Online Music Stores, I could possibly order one and try it out and if I didn't like it I could return it for a refund. But that is a hassle for a potential customer to do and deal with. Plus I'm sure it could be a major pain for GEM because of the possible multiple returns of your product. Though I'm not saying there would be.

I for one would love to try out the Genesys Pro at my local retailer. But there are none in my area. Again, I know it's not your fault and I understand that you are trying to cover for your employer which is only natural. Plus the Boss could be looking in too, right? But I hope he does see these posts and that GEM will have a change of heart and start by trying to get a foothold into the Major retail establishments. Imho, I think it would be good for GEM; in the way of increased sales and product recognition and "presence", and I know it would be good for your potential customers by the fact that they could actually demo the product to have a first hand encounter with it and the fact that buying it locally there is security in knowing that the place I bought it from is either a local phone call away or a short drive away to ask questions and get product support and demo it again if I wasn't quite convinced on the first encounter.

Best regards,
Mike

Mike,

You did not offend me, nor upset me with your comments. I wanted you to see that it is really a catch twenty-two. Just because the large catalog store shows your product in there catalog doesn't mean they have them and display, demonstrate them. In some market areas we have better coverage than other keyboard manufactures.

So here is the dilemma and I will give an example from when I worked retail.

I worked and managed a large locally owned music store with multiple locations. We sold a ton of keyboards. We never stocked any of the high-end arrangers that were in catalogs. The main reason, was because we needed to make X amount of money from a sale to make it worthwhile to demonstrate and support and train the customer to use the instrument. When a catalog company sells an instrument, they normally do none of these things. They just sell you a box, in which they can sell you the product for far less than a store that give you the full meal deal. With slab style products (non-arranger, mostly 88 note pianos and synths) a store like the one I worked for could compete, because those instruments are sold with very little support, and we could easily compete on price. You could sell 5-10 slab keyboards in the time it would take you to sell 1 arranger style instrument. So simply put, if there is good profit to selling the instrument, more and more people will want to sell them and show them. This doesn't happen overnight, but is happening, distribution is a lot better than it was just a year ago, and is getting better.

Those truly interested in purchasing a new instrument and would like have a demonstration and play a genesys PRO or any other instruments Generalmusic builds, send me an email. I will either locate a dealer near by, or arrange something to get you the opportunity to play the instrument.

Sincerely,




------------------
Paul Davis
Generalmusic
Generalmusic.US

Paul,
According to most of the major arranger companys here in the USA, I'm a part of a very small group of music stores in this country that choose to sell many high end arranger keyboards. I've been told for years, that most stores have little or no interest in stocking high end pro style arranger keybaords. There are so many reasons why so many choose not to carry these products. First and most importantly I think it has nothing to do with the small Italian companys vs the big Japanese companys, but rather music store owners or sales people who have little or know interest and knowledge in putting so much effort to learn, demonstrate and sell these types of keyboards. It has been told to me over and over again, that when Guitar Center or Sam Ash stock a Tyros or PA80 on their floors, very few are actually being sold because someone has come into the store and a sales person has sold a keyboard. I've been told by customers of these forums that when they do walk into a chain store which do carry these products, they usually are met with someone with basically no knowledge of how these keyboards work and therfore give the shopper either no information, wrong information or an attempt to move the customer to a different type of product, one which the saleperson knows something about. The decesion to sell products in a particular store is not made at the individual store level but rather at the corportate leve. Some models are ordered and some are not, without the store manager even knowing what will be sold or not. When choosing to carry the Korg PA80 or the Yamaha Tyros, again, this is often part of a "master" order and thus you see these keybaords at some of the locations but not at all. Sometimes I beleive that because the buyer meets with the representative of a large company, purchasing decesions are made more because of the name rather than if the product mix is correct for their type of store or location. I congradulate Ketron and Generalmusic for putting their keyboards mostly in stores that care to learn and show their products along side of Yamaha, Korg and Roland products. I find the mind set that all arranger keyboards are more like low end entry level "box" store keyboards not worth spending time showing, the more common feeling in chain stores. For this reason, I think this might be why you will see some Yamaha and Korg products in some chain stores. With so many different types of keyboads, having a few Tyros or maybe a Korg PA80 is easy enough to have around. Sure, it's easy to say "everyone knows Yamaha because of it's high visibility" but I love the opportunity to display in my store what the other keybord brands can offer. It has nothing to do with selling a Generalmusic or Ketron at higher prices because of less competition because I price my products all the same and don't charge a higher profit percentage for any keyboard I sell. I enjoy showing the different features each keyboard has to offer. Of course,feeling a bit selfish, I like that I'm one of just a few dealers that people have to drive to in order to see all the models and get what I think is a very good demo, but I also appreciate that Generalmusic and Ketron support me by giving me a large area to sell their keyboads and by taking care of any problems I might have with a repair in a very timely manner. Most times, I get the sale, both in person and via the internet, but sometimes if a customer is only looking for the lowest price, the sale goes to the internet store. I do want to say though that the amount of time and effort that goes into dealing with a good dealer does offer benefits in both support, technically and if problems arrive. I'm trying not to sound like I'm comlaining here, because it is very rewarding when the customer comes back after making the decesion to buy from me, or a phone call comes in from Florida or New York and I get the opportunity to help that customer who put their confidence in a small store like mine. Dan O., myself and a handful of others put in a lot of effort to make our businesses work and survive. I thank the comapanys that support my store and my customers and hope that they continue to support those dealers that support them. I hope that in the future, more small dealers will realize from customers and forums like this that there is a market for these keybaords and that you will be able to vist local store and lay your hands and hear with your ears how good all these new keyboards are.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

PaulD

With regard to the "our keyboards are used by these following people so they must be good"... The high profile users are such that it is worth your while delivering a demo model to their door - endorsement may well confirm the quality of the product (and I have no doubts about that - I've played your high-end stuff at trade shows) but has no bearing on the general availability situation for normal users who have to footslog around stores, which is the point being made here.

I only wish I had a "George Kaye" somewhere near me!

Well since I had an interest in the Genesys when I bought my Tyros last year I'll put in my .02.

First I would prefer to do business with a mom & pop having spent my life in one, but this is really more about the Genesys and availability.

I doubt all those big stars you mentioned above are playing a Genysis Arranger, perhaps one of you other boards.

The availabilty despite your analogies is ludicrious. Paul you were supposed to arrange when you were in Sacramento "all the time" to get with me on a Genesys. That was August or September of last year you told me that.....if the national sales manager can't put a demo together......hmmmm. That does not instill allot of confidence in me that if I can't even get the board demoed that if I have a problem I will have any better luck.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, just pointing out some consumer realities. I have bought probably 95% of my gear locally, one a major chain and the other two mom & pops. While great and should be in theory that the M&P's know their stuff, that's certainly not true here. Neither know anymore than the catalogs either. As has been said before George and DanO are the exceptions to the rule.

Regardless of General Music's sales strategy, this consumer's reality is no see,play, feel no sale.

I bought my Tyros sight unseen based on their reputatuon and that it was like the 9000 but better (and I had a 9k) by those that had played it and a 45 day money back guarantee.

Regardless of General's sales strategy, they need to approach one of the M&P's and say here, put one of these demo units in your store free and take orders and we'll come around every few months and put on demo day for your customers...IMO.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 07-24-2003).]

Not a single musical instrument company will put demo units in stores free o charge. It is something that has always bugged me because most customers do not want to buy floor samples unless they are going to be sold at greatly reduced prices and we have to pay the same price for our on the floor demo models as the brand new ones sold in the box. Knowing this, I would doubt if any large or small company would ever place their expensive gear in a retail store and not get paid for it. Although the benefits could mean more sales, often time the store that has no investment in their gear might not try to sell this "free" stuff at all because they would have to sell what they've already paid or been billed for.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Such are the perils of doing business in a free market economy I reckon.

Although I think a Demo day is actually a good idea. It would have to be done at a Store that already carries the GEM, etc., line of products. It could even be held at a 'free' public facility like a Park, etc. Word could get out by either mass mailings, email, or even on Keyboard BBS's. Those in the surrounding area[s] could gather on a specified day and time and really have a good time and some down home fun not only by learning about and hearing the Keyboard[s] but by gathering with fellow Arranger and possibly some non-Arranger Keyboardists and discuss our passion of music with each other and make new aquantinces in process.

And don't forget about the chips and salsa, soft drinks and burgers and hotdogs that could also be on the venue!

Best regards,
Mike

For all the catalog or discount buyers, I can only say that, in my experience, it's been much better to deal with an established dealer. I drive across two states to reach his store. There, I've purchased a number of Technics over the years. I know it must be rare, but I was wowed by the demonstrations provided of every minute detail of the keyboard, examples provided, all questions answered, lots of free software thrown in and more. Hence, I keep going back. I've bought a ton of stuff from catalog stores, but never a keyboard.

Many years ago, I purchased a keyboard from Wersi. They were sort-of like General Music in that they have very few dealers (actually none), a niche product, were considered advanced for the times, were very expensive, etc.

I sorely regret ever purchasing a Wersi. The reasons were simple, not enough users were using the product in the states and could not share their experiences. There weren't enough documents, files, voices, etc. in the public domain to help support the product. The support was also very bad.

Additionally, Wersi advertised the product was expandable and will never be obsolete, but I found in a few years, it was downright cheezy compared with new keyboards appearing on the market. I noticed other keyboard manufacturers at the time selling their keyboards in the retail stream with great success. Those users were getting great support from both the company and the user community surrounding the keyboard.

So at the end of the day, there is a stigma with boutique type products; especially musical instruments. If i'm going to spend $6000.00 on a keyboard, I'm going to be damn sure it's going to be supported by the retail system, will have a large following, user groups and user forums will sprout up and support it's usage, and most importantly, there will be a healthy aftermarket and re-sale market. I hope companies like GeneralMusic take this to heart and try to bridge the gap between mainstream and eclectic so that creativity and competition will not be stifled.


Al

[This message has been edited by kbrkr (edited 07-24-2003).]

Those Demos that you speak of, are being done all over the place by dealers. Companies such as Generalmusic will bring in an artist to do a clinic/workshop with a concert at the end. This has been an industry standard for years. Unfotunatly of late the attendance to these types of events are not what they use to be (not just Generalmusic demos, but other brands as well). The main reason is, people don't like the sales people there wanting to sell you something after you have been wowed. This is another catch twenty-two for dealers and manufactures to make the effort and expence to put these thing on, they need results to pay for them. I personally love these show, as it is amazing to see the excitment in the room, as an artist really uses an instrument to its limits, where as most use less than 50% of the instrument (this is every brand). But hey, I love infomercials too.

If I knew nothing about keyboards and wanted one, I would have to have a demo.

I'm not the greatest keyboard player. However I won't buy any keyboard from anyone because of a demostration.

I want one in my house for 30 or 40 days to try out the sequencer etc. In my town no saleman I've met yet knows very much about sequencing with any keyboard.

No demo is going to show me everything I want to know about a keyboard. I want the 30 40 day opportunity to use it myself in my home with my own hands. I know what I want and need not a salesman. Don't mean to offend anyone. That's just the way it is with me. Everyone is different.

Terry,

I have been in Sac area several times and emailed you a couple times letting you know that I was going to be in the area, with no responce. I can look at my sent file and search thru them to tell you exactly when that was, but it was a long time ago. I have been there recently and should be in that area again in about a month. If you would like to email me again (so that I am sure I have your email address), we will hook up, so that you can see the genesys.

This is the second time that you have brought up service question with Gernalmusic. We have a 5 year warranty, the warranty centers that do Yamaha, Korg, Roland, also repair Generalmusic products. Our instruments don't have many problems, but when they do, they are taken care of, in a timly manner. Unlike some of these "Big" brand names that you throw around, we have a warehouse full of parts ready to ship if a problem does happen. I speak from experience when I tell you, other manufactures do not have a lot of parts instock here in the US, so you have to wait. I have waited 3-6 months for parts for customers when I worked retail selling those other brands. Now, don't get me wrong, some manufacutures stock some things, but ask any of the guys in retail, about how long parts take to get in. Generalmusic parts are for the most part shipped that same day. Honestly that is rare in this "right now" wharehousing. I am very happy with the level of service we give our customers, and I am very happy with the level of service our dealers give to their customers.

We are clearly a smaller company here in the US, but that isn't a bad thing. We can respond quickier to a problem, and we can listen easier to our customers. Let me point out that you are engaged in a conversation with an RSM. You will find that it is easier to get things done with a personal smaller company than with a large gaint company. Both have there good points, but as far as service, a small company can normally run circles around a large one.

Al,

I am sorry that you feel you made a mistake with the Wersi. Wersi made/makes great instruments. Unfortunatly several things happened to Wersi, first the Organ market crashed which was a great sorce of there sales, and the wall came crumbling down, which drove prices through the roof, making them from expensive to outragously expensive.

That all being said, has little bearing on Generalmusic, as our distrubution is vastly better than Wersi ever was. We have a fair amount of dealers across the country and user all over the world. Generalmusic has it's on Websites to support our products as well as fan based websites inculding Gem-club.com as well as others. We currently have more dealers than companies such as Stienway & Sons, but as I say, distribution could be better there are some holes that we have that still need dealers.

Don't foget, a little over a year ago, we were in every Baldwin and Peavey dealers store.

paul,most of the people on this site are experienced keyboardists,who have spent the time on the learning curve,these people would know a top rate keyboard from, the middle of the road boards,and not liking the idea of buying blind,by offering a 30 or40 day return your sales will rise because very few boards would be returned,brick boos idea makes sense,maybe this is the right direction for genysys to go,mike

Mike,
I will suggest this to the powers to be. The question then falls, who would take the return, the dealer or Generalmusic. What would be done with these said returns (if any)? Generalmusic can not change a dealers return policy, how would this be handled? These would be questions that would need to be addressed... Any ideas?

Paul,

I was going to keep quiet, but since you asked...

I live in the 6th largest US city. A number of local dealers (an independent store which carries all sorts of keyboards, and a local chain) had told me they would not be ordering the Genesys range because generally (in the past) GEM keyboard had not sold well.

At this point I think it is the Generalmusic USA that would have the most to gain from offering to accept the returns (should their instruments indeed be returned) within a reasonable amount of time (e.g. 30-45 days), which is what most people here can expect when dealing with a major retailer (who unfortunately, do not carry your products). If that does not fly with your bosses, the least GEM can do is provide free units for display for at least some of your dealers (or promise to accept a return of their demo unit if it does not sell).

I think that considering that the price and the features of the upcoming competition (e.g. Korg PA1X, which is comparable in features and price, but has a better distribution channel) your company needs to move very aggressively between now and when Korg units are actually shipped, (and definitely before the Winter NAMM).

Otherwise, GEM will find itself in the same situation as it did with the WK4 - the instrument was very advanced when it came out, but the slow sales kept the company from updating it. As a result it fell behind the times.

Regards,
Alex

Well Paul,
If you ever E'd me, I sure never got it. My E has not changed, it's still linked here. You could have posted something here on the board too that you needed me to E you or you would be in Sacto. or whatever. Could have gone to my site and sent me an E from the link there.I answer all my E mails if I get one period.

So I will E you again for the next time you are in town.

Many valid points have been made here regarding return policies and their necessity. I rarely return anything, but have returned a couple of pieces of gear and exchanged them for another piece after playing with them in my studio for a few days. Those things at store level here are then put out as opened or whatever and a discount given on them for the most part. I realize with a slim profit margin already this is hard for the retailers or companies to do however, these boards and gear are fairly complicated and it takes a few days or so to see if it is going to fit into the program. The next thing is in most of these stores, GC especially one cannot hear squat in there for all the 3 chord wonders that come in crank up the volume and keep playing the same crap over and over again for an hour in the store. When I asked them about that, they said it is the company policy to not issue headphones to all because they wanted to create excitement with all the noise. It sure is noise.

The other thing IMO is that NAMM should run another day or two say Thursday & Friday or Monday&Tuesday and those days should be for dealers only with the weekends open to the public for a fee. You guys would also have to add a couple of more locations to the itinerary, so it would be more convienent for cutomers.

Barring that perhaps mini trade shows across the country. Many companies do this....woodworking and sewing equipment as an example. Business may not always be done at these shows, but the customer then goes home and thinks about the product and many purchase later from a retailer locally, or mail order or the next time the show comes to town. I have seen some of the same booths at these shows for the last 20 years so it must be well worth it and having done these types of shows myself it is worth it, if for nothing else, the mailing list it creates.

GEM needs to do something if they want any of the US market. It's fine that George and Dan carry it but that is not going to cut it for the vast majority of potential customers in general. George is a good 8 hours from me one way, sorry but there isn't any keyboard I want or need that badly to drive 16 hours and stay overnight for.

Sorry but to me the entire sales market has changed from companies, stores, sales people really wanting one's business to acting more like they are doing us a favor by selling us their products. I think it ludicriou to me to hear someone proclaim their great customer service. I was born into and raised in retail....and today people/companies do not have even close to a clue as to what good customer service is 95% of the time IMO. There are exceptions to the rule but they are getting farther and farther in between.

The other day I had some idiot assistant manager at Staples blow me off over a $30. rebate I did not receive from them and his boss told me to come into the store and they would take care of it there if I did not get the rebate. This guy basically told me and any future business to take a hike, Fortunately for them his boss was there and made it right, otherwise they would have kissed any more business from me goodbye. And I spent the rebate plus some right there and then....what a dope. These sorts of stories to me are not the exception anymore, they are the rule by and large.

Gem I think needs to try harder and go farther if they want to sell many of the boards in the US. Arrangers to me in part have piss poor sales here, because nobody sells them, meaning if you walk into a music store, they walk you over to a workstation, not an arranger. The way for companies to combat that is to have higher visibility to the crowd they are trying to sell to. If you take a look at the mean age of the arranger players here, I would bet it has to be above 45/50, so it does not surprise me they do not sell well in a store that is basically catering to 17 year olds like GC. Not to mention the store personnel for the most part knows zero about them. I demo'd a VA76 the other day at my local M&P and a keyboard guy that's been there as long as I can remember and have been going in there 10 years or so, knew zero about the board.

I have bought 2 boards off of demos A Karma when Tom Norton demo'd it and a Motif when Blake Angelos demo'd it...if you've not seen a Blake demo.....what a shame, Blake COOKS big time. If he comes around with the new Mo Es,he'll probably convince me to buy one of those too. I think attendance may be poor at those demos because the promotion and build up of excitement around them is poor also add in a show special and you have the sales combo. As has been cited here we all would like a better deal.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 07-24-2003).]

Terry,

First off, I will try again when I am in town. I honestly don't know why you didn't get them. When I sent you those emails, they didn't bounce back, so I assumed you got them and or not in town, did respond.

Next, NAMM isn't open to the public, NAMM tried to open it to the public and it failed miserably, so I don't suspect that they will try this again. If you think a GC is bad, you wouldn't believe what went down when NAMM was open to the public... For those that have been to winter NAMM you know how crowded it is without the general public, with it is a mad house and what NAMM is really for, conducting business, doesn't get done.

People have a better chance at checking out the new stuff at their local music store, granted not nearly the selection that is at NAMM, but at least you could actually spend sometime with a potential instrument in a music store. The noise level at NAMM, doesn't really allow for a good audition of the products.

Generalmusic has dealers all over the place, actually there is one in the city just above you, they happen to not carry the genesys product, because of fears of stocking a high end arranger.

Regards,
Paul

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

Paul,
Gee you forgot to mention this little feature of the Gem-club.com
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by sk880user (edited 07-25-2003).]

Well, I am happy to see that you all agree
that the Genesys is a great instrument.
In Europe they are sold very well. Why the
US are in the middleages at this point is not
understandable.
We hope the Americans will have a better
future.

My comment was a little bit harsh and unfair so I will paraphrase.

High end arrangers from Yamaha, Roland and General Music are displayed only in very few places. They are generally successful small store owners who understand these keyboards and BELIEVE in them; and therefore, they can sell them.

Unfortunately, these people are very few in the US and they may not be in the actual major city. One has to drive to another rural city, hours away, to see the keyboard in action.

I bought SK880 by reading the spec on the net.

[This message has been edited by sk880user (edited 08-01-2003).]

I did get a quick try out of the Genesys Pro at NAMM and I did the like the accomp. section. The Reggae styles were outstanding and the sound was good through the headphones. I liked what little I heard better than the Tyros or the Technics, I thought that it was closer to the Pa1x or the Ketron, in the very little that I was able to hear. The GEM looked and felt good. It only had one button for endings, but it played a different ending depending on which of the four variations you were on when you pressed the ending button. I would have liked to have spent more time with it, worth checking out ( if you can find one! )

PaulD,

Is there a plan in the works to make the GPro, touchscreen, even color touch screen?

Ive been using Trinity and I30 for years, and really, It does make a huge difference in use, while in the studio..

Can you please comment..

best,

MusiKman

MusiKman,

At this time, I am not aware of any plans for either a touch screen, nor a color screen.

I personally don't like touch screens, as they don't seem as bright and when playing with any amount of light, such as stage light or sunlight, I never seemed to be able to see the screen well. I haven't played with the Korg Trinty much, other than in stores but have seen them on stages, I am assuming that they don't have this problem then. Am I correct? As for color screens, I think they look awesome and make for a great demo as a salesperson, and the mono screens look very old school. The same problem tho (color screens), they don't even seem to be able to be bright enough, or get washed out easily. I understand there are newer displays that don't have this problem, but when it all comes down to it, they are expensive, and genesys is being put down because of it's expense already. I find the screen on the genesys to do exactly what it needs to do...

My personal preference would be to stay away from the touch screen as I think that they would spend less time trying to make the buttons and the user interface workable as an instrument and use "soft" touchscreen buttons and multiple layers of menus (which I personally hate, I love to be able to get around on the instrument fast, with as few button pushes as possible). I like that fact, that even with a glare on the screen and light in my eyes, I can feel my way around.

So, Yes, I am sure we would sell more instruments with one or both of those features. Is it really nessesary? Does it really help? Sincerely if I am missing something, please tell me.. I am sort of old school when it comes to my instruments, and personally happier with an LED than a screen at all.

If any of you know the Kurzweil Mark 10 (Digital Piano). I loved that instrument, it was a sea of led buttons, and with a single glance or a button push you could do pretty much everything the instrument could do.

I believe that touch screen is not good for real time performance. I like the control of newer GEM instruments as they are now. I like the fact that they have dedicated buttons to do the job and that the menus are not deep. The fact that they have 10 sliders makes them a superiour instrument to all. I actually wrote driver code for one touch screen and I can tell you that it is impossible to have the same reliability of touch as mere buttons and sliders.

Irregardless of availability you should all appreciate the fact that PaulD continues to monitor this forum and answer questions to the best of his ability. That in itself shows a dedication to users of GeneralMusic instruments which is very admirable. There are marketing considerations which may not suit users in all areas, but the fact is that PaulD tries to keep you all informed about the availability of his company's products. With so many musical electronics companies virtually ignoring their online users, it is extremely refreshing to see a company like GeneralMusic prepared to discuss issues publicly, and shows that they are confident about the quality of their products.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 07-29-2003).]

I agree with you, Nigel.

It is regrettable that Paul's counterparts from Korg and Roland chose to stay on the sidelines (although I hope that they are still reading our posts). They can learn a lot about what we need by monitoring these discussions. And it's way cheaper than conducting a market research with a focus group.

Paul,
I agree with you on the touchscreens, I do not like them at all. I've played with the Triton and VA touchscreens and did not like either. As far as the color though I have to say the Tyros color screen is dynamite and I can more easily pick out different things that I want to do because of the color seperations.

I also have to agree with Nigel, even though I have taken you to task on availability issues I very much appreciate and feel it shows a dedication on yours and GEM's part to their customers and potential customers that not many of the others do.
thanks,
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 07-29-2003).]

I agree with Nigel. Paul Davis has bent over backwards to help us and me in particular in my questions about GEM products and in his prompt and courteous responses to my questions and concerns. And to have higher ups from major Arranger Keyboard manufacturers amongst us is truly something to relish. Even AJ, who pops his head in once in a while; from Ketron, and Steve Deming from Yamaha who answers are more noble questions from time to time "and some not so noble too" is all a plus + in my book. And I do think because they read our posts and understand our plight (at least that is our intention for them; "to understand our 'needs' as Arranger Musicians") that Product development can and does reflect in many instances our input by the resulting accommodations they make in and to their Keyboard products. At least they have the ammunition to get the job done if they do choose to embark on that task.

Now if we could just get Tsutomu Katoh from Korg; Ikutaro Kakehashi from Roland Japan; and Dennis Houlihan from Roland US to cut the "noose" from their employees and allow them the freedom to post on this and other Keyboard Forums we would "ALL" be better off because of it. Come on Korg and Roland, communication is a two way street. Try not talking to your wife or girlfriend for a week and see where it gets you. Does Divorce or Dumped come to mind???

Best regards,
Mike

Thank You Nigel, Alex, Terry and Mike. Mike do you work in the industry? I am impressed that you know who those guys are. I am sure they have their reasons for keeping silent. I know I worry sometimes about turning people off of Generalmusic products when I don't tell them what they want to hear, and I have to monitor myself sometimes to not let our future product information out until ready for release. I am sure they must have some monioring happening at some level of forums like this one.

As far as color screens go, as I honestly haven't had a keyboard (personal use) that has a color screen, do you find them as bright and as easy to see in all light? What one keyboard should I look at, that has a good color screen, where the color does make a diffrence, and isn't just cool looking?

My VA7 has a touchscreen and that gives no
problems at all, you have to get used to it!
I heard the Genesys too and it sounds great.
As you said Mart it was impressing!

Guys, does the Genesis have insert effects?
Like maybe compression etc, specially if youre going to record your vocals?

I know it has four stereo effects, but can these be used as mono effects and then have 8 mono effects in all?

Thanks,

MusiKman

The Genesys has a bunch of effects for the audio inputs, including but not limited to:
Compressor, Limiter, Gate, Vocoder, 4 Part Harmonizer, Delay, reverbs, EQ.

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Paul Davis
Generalmusic
Generalmusic.US

Paul.
Look at the Tyros screen, IMO, for color and readability, size and tilt.....very very cool. Best screen I've ever had on a board hands down.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

Terry, I think Paul was wanting to know of a Color Screen that was good in all lighting conditions, eg., direct sunlight, Studio lighting, etc. As you and I know, the Tryos's cool tilt screen does not function properly in dirct sunlight or under bright stage lights even though it's the 'coolest' Arranger Keyboard LCD screen on the market besides maybe the Technics KN7000.

Best regards,
Mike

You have read my mind. I was thinking exactly about what you just posted. From my personal experience I found out that General Music in its staff of Paul and Chris have offered superb customer support and reliable communications. So I join you and the rest of the forum in saying thanks to Paul and Chris.

Thank you sk880user.... I have to thank Chris too (and have many, many times but not publicly) The guy is brilliant and most helpful to me as a great resource, as I don't know everything (Nor do I pretend too).

No another note, I will check out these displays again, I wasn't taken back by either of these upon first look, other than a sexy sales thing. If they truly are helpful in the fuctionality of the instrument, I need to really give it a second chance. As I said I am old school keyboardist and remember the days when I walk home from school barefoot in 3 feet of snow.... and did I complain?

Paul,
Thank you so much for considering the color or touch screen display thing.
I really appreciate that...
You know, its customer service like this that keeps people loyal to companies..
I have never owned a General Music keyboard, but looking at your product, it does attract me very much. Anyway, thank you very much for your time and customer support..
Companies that forget to do this, forget that the customer ultimitaly is their lifeline.....
Im glad your company has you and hasnt forgotten about its lifeline, their loyal customers....

Great job Pual...

May God continue to bless you and your company very much !!!

best,

MusiKman

Hi Terry ,

Baltimore's Keyboard City is not an authorized GEM dealer .