spalding..... I'm confused. Does the OS3 REPLACE the waveform ROM that came when you bought it (flashROM? that's hard to believe), or do the new styles only address the old sample ROM?

You talk about this new piano (from the PA800), that HAS to be new samples, doesn't it? So no styles can address this until it is loaded into RAM?

How about new drumkits or guitar sounds? I realize that the new OS allows for much more multi-sample switching, etc., which will breathe new life into the old sample ROM quite a bit, but at the end of the day, it IS still the old ROM, isn't it?

Don't get me wrong, the new OS looks to be an amazing boon to current owners of PA1X's, but personally, I would still, if I were thinking about a new arranger, think it possibly worth the wait for Korg to come out with a new TOTL (top of the line) arranger with the PA800's engine. MUCH greater polyphony, MUCH greater addressable RAM memory, probably faster response (latency), and that thing we all crave, NEW ROM waveforms that address the shortcomings in the current set.

But that's just me.... others may not be able to wait that long. But I imagine that Korg are thinking they will sell more TOTL arrangers by bringing out a new model than simply putting a brand new paint job (with racing stripes!) on the old one. So don't be surprised at a new TOTL Korg at summer NAMM or thereabouts. Some new ROM (from PA800 and maybe M3 ), the new OS, the old TC Helion stuff and the new RAM specs and color touch screen, it wouldn't take long to cobble all that together.

I think I see OS3 as having great value for their existing customers, but I can also see the advantage to Korg of a greater pool of beta testers than just the few PA800 users so far to test the new OS for bugs before they roll out a new TOTL arranger........

No.



Technically, yes.



Yes and yes.



Yes and no.
The RX engine has been updated to 16 OSC’s, so the level of control and complexity over a sound has been enhanced greatly.



It’s not a lure to get people to buy more Pa1X keyboards, it’s about a promise to Pa1X users that KORG made a long time ago to support their customers by trying to reverse engineer new systems that they where developing for a new keyboard. Which turned out to be the Pa800 but nobody knew that at the time.



I’m sure that in time you will see this, but KORG have always given their products a very long life before the successor comes out. Which I think it’s great considering that keyboards do cost money and they are expensive.

I’d rather see many years of support and OS updates than the expectation to just buy a new keyboard every 2 years or so.

Regards.
James.

Thanks for the clarification, James. Cleared up a lot of confusion.

I applaud Korg's follow up on their promises. As you know, we Roland users have had similar good fortune.

How long has the PA1X been out now, though...? It must be enough to amortize their development costs. Didn't the PA80 come out AFTER it? And that has already been replaced.

It would not be in Korg's best interest to sit on this new technology for no reason other than a 'promise' to it's existing user base. They have fulfilled that promise. It's time to attract new customers to the line that may be a bit hesitant, given the poor comparison (at least in some specs) to other, more up to date arrangers.

You don't see the M3 not being released because they don't want to p*ss off the Triton Extreme buyers..... Mark my words, I think we'll be seeing a new TOTL Korg this year, and current PA1X buyers will be MUCH more likely to buy it, now Korg have shown how well they support legacy products.

BTW, if any Roland R&D or marketing guys are trolling this, firstly, thanks for folding back on the G70 the OTS and per-part EQ from the E80......

How about folding back the style text and picture viewer features, too....?

You MUST see the PR benefits, now, the customer loyalty (I'm definitely buying another Roland in the future, now that you spent all that time and money fixing and improving the G70 - I wasn't if you hadn't, though!) and reputation for follow-up.

The code for these features is already done, no harm to provide it to the G70 users (it doesn't cut into sales - most G70 users get one for the form factor), and it only enhances your already much improved reputation....

Pretty please........

It was first seen at the NAMM show Jan 04



It would have been a hot seller, and I guess if something is selling so well. Why stop selling it. Why not use that time and money to develop an even better successor.



No, believe it or not, the Pa80 came out in July 2000.



True, but I think they have used the time wisely, while making existing customers very happy, they have given themselves a lot of time to develop something truly amazing.

So, who knows. Maybe the next model will be a super duper workstation arranger :-)



Agreed, and I think we will see something at summer NAMM.



The Triton Extreme has been around since the start of 2004. The M3 is also more of a replacement for the entire Triton Series line in my opinion, which goes WAY back to the release of the Triton Classic.

So, this has been on the cards for a very long time. Too long in fact. Maybe people would have expected the Triton Series to be replaced after the release of the Triton Studio and not to see a TR and Extreme.

Kind Regards.
James.

Actually the PA1X is quite young, if you have a look at the Ketron SD1 this came out in 2001/2002, and has also been updated so as to keep customers happy.
The main thing to remember is that you don’t need to upgrade (Only update) a quality instrument every couple of years, as the fact that it has quality will keep buyers coming.
This is why I still rate the PA1X above the G70, E80 and Tyros 2 etc.

Bill

Th PA1x is still the most complete arranger in the market and competes very strongly against even the latest yamaha and Roland arrangers out there. A quality instrument will always be a quality instrument.It doesnt matter what cute gadgets come along in the future.Thats why the PAX has held its value for so long . Ask a T1 Owner what their instrument is worth now compared to when they purchased it. For me at least, it is not the technology that drives my purchases.I dont buy a new keyboard every 2 or three years so yamaha would not like me as a customer ! Its the quality of sound, ease of use and how quickly the instrument can produce the music that is within me. The pax is still the only arranger workstation that is complete in its entirety without the use of external software or hardware. This is not a "my keyboard is better than yours " argument. I am saying that for me and i guess many other song writers/performers they want a quality instrument with a fully featured sequencer, a fully functional sampler,fully editable sounds great support in terms of future updates, styles or sounds from the manufacturer and an OS that integrates these functions easily so that i can use them in my creative process quickly and intuitively.

The Pax does that and does it very very well. Had i the option a new keyboard today i would still choose the PAX even before the OS 3.

[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 02-17-2007).]

But the PA1X is still based primarily on the Triton engine (and an older Triton at that, no tubes in a PA1X!), something that Korg already have shown the door, after long and faithful service. There always seems to be a couple of years or more between a new synth engine, and it's appearance as the motor for an arranger (Motif>Tyros, Fantom>G70, Triton>PA1X), so there's a technological gap that is even wider for arrangers than workstations.

Sorry for not researching my timeline better. Was the PA1X the first Triton based TOTL Korg, or was there a PA1 before it? You see where I'm going, here?

Now that Korg have opened the door with the PA800, and the engine and OS changes have been coded, Korg are only going to lose money if they don't bring the TOTL to market ASAP.

OTOH, if they were to work on a REAL super-duper, and combine the arranger OS with the M3's engine, and keep the Karma and audio features, too..... WOW!

THAT would be worth waiting a couple of years more for....

None of the triton range have RX technology. The sound engine on the Triton range is slightly different as the triton range sounds are not immediately compatable with the PA1X. The funny thing is that the Pa800 has a new synth engine that sounds astoundingly similar to the old sound engine ! If i were not told that the PA800 had a different sound engine i would not have been able to tell. Listen to some of the demos on the PA1X and then the same demos (yes exactly the same demos) on the PA800 and tell me if you can hear a difference or if you can whether it justifies splashing out new cash if you already own the PA1X ?

Korg will only loose money if people buy from a spec sheet or simply want to aquire new technology. If korg were wary of that then they would have released another instrument by now but i dont think korg have anything to worry about if purchasers use their ears and understand the length of commitment the manufacturer makes to each successive model. The only real change that korg made to the PA800 is the extra polyphony and the extra sampling ram. The extra polyphony was devised to accomodate the up to 16 oscillators per sound . However very few of the sounds on the PA800 use more than 4-5 oscillators . Its only the RX piano that uses more to get the most accurate piano sound on an arranger keyboard. You willmost likely use this instrument in solo playing as it would be lost in accompaniment. AS the PA1X now has the same level of sound design through the new OS3(i,e it now has the capability of using up to 16 oscillators per voice) even withg its reduced polyphony of 62 notes it still is not a major hindrance in solo playing.

Certainly there willba a new PA2X some time but from the various discussions forums that i frequent individuals are still making favourable comparrisons between the T2,G70 and PA1X. Thats not bad for a 3 year old technology instrument

I completely agree, spalding..... even after all this time, the PA1X can hold it's water up against newer arrangers, especially in the contemporary music category, where I think it's the ONLY arranger out there with much of an urban, 21st century vibe.

When I refer to an engine, I am not really talking about the samples in ROM, but more the underlying synth chip that powers them. The additional polyphony is a truly significant change from the PA1X to the PA800, allowing the sound designers for a new TOTL much more scope in patch realism, and I would expect a LOT of new ROM in any new TOTL Korg.

Another HUGE improvement I would expect from a 21st century engine is the latency issue, stacked voices and all that. I noticed an enormous improvement in latency going from a G1000 (with it's Sound Canvas SC88Pro engine) to the G70 (based on the FantomX). Layered patches are now consistent, and flam-free. I've played many Tritons (got one myself) and you can sure hear the engine working once you layer three or more patches on a single note, especially percussive sounds.

Then you add in the HUGE improvement in sample RAM capacity... If you DO have slow load up times (and they all do, even if the PA800 is a BIT faster) this simply means for live, you basically can load up at the start of the gig, and that's it... It takes up far too long to do it during the show, or even, dare I say it, DURING a song! So the more RAM you have, the more sounds you can use. The PA1X's 32MB limit is just not enough for more than a few good sounds (or one passable piano!).

I don't know if many PA1X users WOULD feel the need to change to a new TOTL Korg, after the OS3 upgrade. I didn't buy into the Roland V-series, but kept my G1000 for eight years until the G70 came out. But for owners of older Korgs, or other manufacturer users looking to take a walk on the wild side, their needs would probably be best served waiting for a PA800-based TOTL, rather than buying into a new PA1X, at the end of it's product life....