Saturday afternoon my wife and I took a little drive to Grand Rapids Michigan (about 35 miles) to go to Guitar Center and to have dinner with our son.

I immediately went to the room where the arranger keyboards are displayed. There was one Casio 3500 and a couple of Yamaha PSRs in the cheap range. The rest were all digital pianos. The clerk asked me if he could help. I told him I wanted to see the PSR3000. He asked me if that was a beginners keyboard because he was not familiar with it. He told me the Pro stuff was in the next room. Of course the next room was filled with synths.

It's no wonder they can't sell arrangers there when the staff is totally clueless. I'm sure if they did have some high end arrangers in stock no one there would know how to demo or sell them.

Tom, it's unfortunately the same scenario at all three Guitar Center stores, as well as all the other music stores in my area as well. All I can say is: thank goodness for our Synthzone arranger keyboard forum and the arranger keyboard knowledge shared here.

Scott
San Francisco Bay Area

Even at some of the upscale, privately-owned music stores and chains the folks behind the counter know little or nothing about arranger keyboard, including how to turn them on. Guess that's why most are high-school kids working for minimum wages.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

I can only second that. One of my brothers at church has specifically wanted to purchase an arranger keyboard because of the music i produce at church on it. He wanted to know how he could get a model like mine as he had been to many stores in birmingham and none of the store demonstrators seemed to know how to make the keyboard produce great music or how to use the sequencer . I told him that my board was nolonger in production and his face fell. I asked him what keyboards he had tried and i was really surprised when he told me that he had looked at the PSR3000 but thought it was inferior to mine ( i have the PSR 8000) and the Tyros, and the KN7000 !! I told him that these were truly outstanding keyboards and that i would snap any one of them up in a hurry if i had the immediate cash.

It looks like sales people at music shops are neither sales people nor musicians !!

By the way as soon as my Law exams are over by the end of June i will post some of my music as i realise that i talk a lot but have never demonstrated what sort of stuff i do....its coming honest !

A few weeks ago I tried to demo a 3000 I had the similar experience at Guitar Center. Meahwhile at my local privately owned music store they didn't carry the 3000 but could order it. The sales guy told me it was too high end for what they usually deal in. They did however have a CVP 305 which I played. The sales guy commented you really know your way around that board don't you. A little later his boss pretty much offered me a part time job in his digital piano department doing demos on the CVP line. I've got other interests and wasn't interested.

You all need to come to Kaye's Music Scene!!
Take a drive to Southern California some time!
See all the arranger keyboards and me! And I'm no teenage highschool student (a 55 year old "silver hair".



------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

I had a similar experience last week actually check this thread out...
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/010777.html


Im tempted to go and see George myself sometime(50 miles away) altho I kinda hate to cuz I know I don't want to buy a new one at this point, to much $$$ for me , and I would hate to kinda waste his time..

But it can be very tough to even find the keyboards at gc or sam ash just to see if u like em.. and I am pretty confident even if u did find it your on your own figuring anything out.. I am in Los Angeles area I can imagine how hard it is in other areas...

Timo1,

If I had a George Kay 100 miles from me I would be there in a heartbeat. 50 miles is almost around the corner as far as I'm concerned when buying a new keyboard, amp or any other major purchase.

George, my hair turned silver when I turned 30, then it went to snow white, but at 65 it's turned up on my pillow and a few other places other than my head.

Cheers,

Gary

Hi Tom,
same thing here in Australia. We get 2 types of stores. The "PRO" shops that sell guitars , synths , music software, audio equipment and the really low end keyboards, then you have the other type that sells digital piano's and mostly low end keyboards.
I've pretty much bought most of my keyboards sight unseen, had to go off literature, specs etc. The only store that had a full range of models, was my Technics dealer. Unfortunately he's now gone. He at least knew the basics on how they worked, great player, but when it came to the trickier questions, even he floundered.

Tend to think maybe because there's so many manufactures, and each keyboard works differently, the sales staff just don't have the time to learn all the functions, so it's pretty much a case of you want it, you get it, and then work it out for yourself.

best wishes
Rikki

Sam Ash in Cincinnati has the 3000, PAX1, PA60, EX series, etc. Got to give them credit for trying to cater to everyone. GC has nothing and clerks are not interested in arrangers anyway. Alan Levine's store in MD has virtually everything. Would also like to visit George
zuki

It's the same story in my state. One of our local stores carries keyboards, digital, and acoustic pianos. Get this... Not ONE of the workers can play if their lives depended on it, and NONE of them know how to demo a synth or arranger. I can't see how this place stays open. This store also sells guitars (Which is fine with me since I play guitar too), but all the workers are "guitar" players. Plus their prices are way too high.

I've noticed this is a problem in almost every music store I've visited. I'd love to be near George Kaye or DanO and have the luxury of talking to store owners who actually know what they're doing.

There was a new music store that opened up just 1/2 mile down the road from me. The owner wants to sell keyboards, but isn't familiar with them or how to demo them. I gave him some suggestions on what would sell in this area. I also brought in my Casio WK-3500 to demo for him. He's asked that I do work on the side for him demoing models that he gets in for customers.

Squeak

This is the real frustrating thing about Roland’s policy re: the G70. In principle I would prefer to buy at a real shop and therefore pay more than the usually discounted internet rate. BUT only if that premium price means I get good service. Not the case in Birmingham, unfortunately. It grieves me to pay for the upkeep of the shop here when they're adding no value to the buying process.

Like many here, wished I lived near George!

By the way George I have considered flying out to see you (I travel to the states a lot anyway). Would you be able to sell to me anyway as I live out of the State? I tried to find your shop on Google but had no luck. Any chance of a link?

Andrew.

40 years ago I worked for a Hammond Organ dealer...They had great players[piano and organ] on the staff..
The most sucessfull sales person[my manager] did not play, but he was the best salesman I have ever seen..He trained me, and his theory still is with me, and it really works.."Sell the sizzle and not the steak"..
Keyboards today have so many features, they can overcome a customer...sure knowing the product is important, but when you are showing the product you better show how a feature will make the customer a happy camper..
You can demo a unit and show a million features at the hands of an experienced and knowlegeable sales person....but when you apply the features in the hands of a customer...then you have a sale..
Not because they are able to play a background to a song they can play and recognize, but because it fullfills a joy and excitement within them..with an accomplishment,they could not imagined...It makes them feel good..

My old manager, used a simple playing step that had every member of the family playing a simple tune in a few minutes...there was no need to showboat how well we played..after all we do not come with the purchase of the organ[and today's arrangers].
But the look of satisfaction on a youngsters face,after he played a tune on this new Hammond, or even better the look on the parent's faces..this excitement and pride is the sizzle...even though the Hammond represented the steaak[Big time]..
If you are in sales..any sales, this principal applies..

Unfortunately, I picked a less than optimum time to stop at DanO's a couple of weeks ago when I was in Baltimore. DanO was alreaady gone for the day ( it was late ), and he had no SD1's on display. It was still a good experience though, because his employee was knowledgeable, and had some good things to say about DanO and arrangers.

I'm going back this summer with the family. Baltimore is the only major city on the east coast North of the Carolinas that we haven't explored ( museums, restaraunts ..etc ). The downtown seemed like a really interesting place. I will contact Dan before we go to ensure that he'll be there when I come by, and with luck he'll have a few arrangers that I haven't tried before.

Our local store in Middletown, NY is very cool too. They do display all of the major Yamaha arrangers as well as the Casio line. They even had a PA80 a while back, but they do not generally carry the Korg or higher end Roland arrangers. Chris, the keyboard manager, is the class of Alto Music. Great guy to talk to, knowledgeable, very friendly, never condescending. If we had the time, I'd want to hang out with him, maybe do a music project.

AJ


[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 05-24-2005).]

Adding to Fran's post above without putting it all here:
I had been a keyboard player all my life, now playing for 68 of my years. I also played horns during most of this time.
About 1987 or thereabouts I went to Pismo Beach, CA. in the RV and while there wandered into a music store in Santa Maria. They had the first Technics Electronic Arranger type piano just in. I think it was a P 90 or something like that. It was 5000.00 dollars but they were offering half off to get some sold and in the field for word of mouth advertising. They had one in the studio and I spent 8 hours in there jamming on it but couldn't make up my minde to buy or not. My wife was out shopping around this mall.
Finally my wife came in and said. They want to close this store and get out of here because some of them have to gig tonight.
Well, very reluctantly I turned it off, thanked everyone, told them I would think it over as I would be there for another week. They all smiled a lot, shook hands and I went out to the car. Guess What?
There was no place for me to sit
Jann had bought that darn piano, had them take it apart, make a drawing for reassembly and and pack it in the car. One piece was lifted out of my place to sit and then put in my lap. We couldn't put it together in the RV so we cut the trip a week short and went home so I could put the piano together and play it night and day for weeks on end. That is how I got started in General Arranger keyboards
What is your story?
I am going to Pismo Beach in the new motorhome next weekend for a week and I may just wander on down to George's store. I haven't been there yet and I will be less then 200 miles from Reseda. I think I can find it. I will bring along a trade just in case George wants to wheel and deal on whatever he has laying around
Best to all
Bebop
OH OOPS, Just had an "E" from George and he tells me he doesn't take trades, especially Technics keyboards. I didn't know that
Anybody want to do some horsetrading for a KN6000 in mint condition? Just email me. I have three Technics Keyboard and will trade one for something else.
Bebop

[This message has been edited by BEBOP (edited 05-24-2005).]

Like anyone else, I had the option of buying at different stores on the net and have it delivered in my lap, without moving a foot.

Instead I chose to drive the 90 some miles to go see George Kaye and buy from a guy that knows what he's doing and still has the heart at the right place. In today's struggle against the big super stores, it's refreshing to find people like George, and we need to keep the few that dare to battle the giants, alive.

He's really a great guy, and although his store looks small on the outside, it's way deep inside and amazing how he managed to store that many keyboards (and other things) inside.

I drove home being another exited PSR user and happy to be on George's customers list.
Even my wife enjoyed the ride since she found some really good bakeries next to George's in the same shopping center

John

------------------
Have a nice day

Thank you John for your kind comments.
Andrew, yes, you can buy a G70 from me even if you live in another state. They only care that the sale takes place at my store! I have talked to Roland to see if I could be allowed to sell to my customers that find me on the Synthzone since I've been around here for over 7 years now and the members of this forum are all like personal customers to me even if they don't visit my store and I ship to you. Those who have purchased from me know how much time I take and how you become life long customers of mine. I hope they listen to me and if you wish, please contact Roland CK division yourselves and express that you would like to be able to purchase from me even if you don't live near Southern California.
Thanks again,
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

The local store keeps middle of the road Yamaha's every now and then a Keytron and or a Korg.

He has 300 guitars on the wall. Anybody can pick up a Guitar and in a month can play and sing 300 or more 2 and three chord tunes just strumming the same rhythm.
You can't do that with piano and keyboards. It takes more coordination. I'm not sure but I think an E chord only takes one finger. Then if the person can sing they become more popular than MyCoy Tyner.

I'm not making fun it's a fact. Try to find a Sax at a store that sell's for more than $800 Ha! Ha!

Like everything else money does the driving. There's more money over-all in guitars than any other instrument probably.

[This message has been edited by brickboo (edited 05-24-2005).]

Is there anybody taking my job away?

------------------
Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)

Hell, I live in New York and even I've been to George's store in Reseda.