Hey folks--I know I left the forum a ways back due to several things, but a few weeks ago I had the chance to really dig into the PSR-3000, and the PSR-1500. I wanted to share my thoughts with members here (even though I've switched back to synths--I was quite thrilled to give these models a good test run).

Off the bat I have to say I went in with high expectations. I literally was expecting to be blown off my feet with this new 3000 and 1500. After my extensive run with both models I left with much disappointment

I can't see where all the hype is.... I truly thought that with all the rave reviews here on the Zone that I'd wet my pants and be licking the keyboard from end to end by the time I finished.

I'll start with sound quality: Right off the top the sweet, cool, live, and mega voices are without a doubt exceptional. The 3000 shines in terms of these special "signature voices" of Yamaha. However, that's where it stopped for me. Outside of the "signature voices" and when it came to the panel voices all I could say was blahhhhhhhhhhhhh. The panel voices just seemed so lifeless, and the preset acoustic piano voices were (in my opinion) quite bland.

Now I didn't just take the presets as they were in default. I edited some, and even messed with the global EQ, and and was very disappointed in the presets. The acoustic piano sample is VERY dated and needs updated (hopefully with the PSR-3100) Personally I think I'll "always" favor a Roland piano sound on both arrangers, and synths over Yammie every day of the week, and twice on Sunday

The drums---boy oh boy Yamaha what a let down. I think the ONLY kit on the 3000 even worthy of an honorable mention was the studio kit (which it too lacked in several areas). Why Yamaha continues to use such lifeless drums is beyond me.

Of course the drawbars (as usual) were stunning. Great presets, and great results from user settings as well.

The harmonizer was alright to me. I still think it could use some changes (but many others here feel the same way too)

The styles: I thought they weren't too bad to be honest. Some were quite nice, and really stood out with the new mega voices Again my biggest gripe with Yammie styles is they lack that "live feel". They're over quantized--ya know...,just too perfect.

Here's my BIGGEST problem with many of Yammies styles (and what I often find on other arrangers as well). Styles on arranger keyboards (in my opinion--have "always" been geared toward the older crowd). Many of the styles on arrnagers are your traditional ballroom, jazz, rock. Arranger are and have "always" been "very" weak in terms of more modern styles. Quite the bummer if you ask me.

About build quality: Honestly...., I wanted to curse at someone for this! How Yammie can pack all those features into this unit, and give it the construction quality of a $200 Casio is beyone me--and yet still have the balls to sell the thing for $1,500

The construction just feels so darn cheap. Of course the action (I won't even start with--since that has been beaten to death already). I will say I did like the color screen--didn't think I would, but did--which is probably a big chunk of the street price as well.

In terms of the sequencer--I'm going to be very fair with this section. For an "arranger specific" sequencer it is quite good. The style sequencer is also very acceptable--but again in the arranger sense. I find that I myself and others often compared the sequencers of arrangers to synths. Which I now feel is really quite the unfair comparison. They are two different keyboards, and both two completely different sequencing platforms. I'll just leave it at that

The PSR-1500, I can sum that puppy up quite easily.. The shell of the 3000, and the guts of the PSR-2000 However, I feel more of a "deal" in term of price, features,ect.

Overall, I'm not feeling the "WOW FACTOR" here. I don't want other to think the PSR-3000 is crap..., because it really isn't. It's just not the board for "my needs". Many of you here make the 3000 shine because it fits your style--and I mean literally your "styles" of music. For someone like myself who does like traditional styles, but is also a modern music freak, this is where the "synth" fills my needs.

I will say this in closing about the preset voices of the PSR-3000. I now have several synths in my studio. One of those is a simple yet basic Roland RS-70. It has neither sweet, cool, live, or mega voices, but the preset voices on this synth (in my opinion) dance circles around the PSR-3000. Plus this is a "budget synth". I have and probably will always be a "Roland" fan at heart. Even though I have a Yamaha MO8 in my set up

Well that's about it..., sorry to jump in out of no where, but I wanted to share my thoughts on this topic with you guys, because lets face it.. The Zone is really the "only and best" place in the world to talk arrangers

Best regards to all...peace out [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/smile.gif[/img] Oh any old heads (and new heads) feel free to drop me an email. I still read the Zone even though I have stopped posting regulary.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 05-29-2006).]

I've been avidly performing and recording with the 2000 for some four years. I recently sold it (got $700 -- not even $300 less than what I paid!) and replaced it with a 3000 (for the record, Guitar Center in Totowah NJ gave it to me brand new for $1279 plus tax, but it seems the salesman ended up getting hit over the head by the manager for that one....). I've been trying it out now for about two weeks and just did a short gig with it this morning for the first time. All I can say is that in my opinion the 2000 was a great keyboard, but the 3000 is FAR superior to it in terms of voices as well as styles. Is it built like a tank? Of course not. But then it doesn't weigh 50 pounds. Maybe it's just me but I find the key action to be excellent. All in all, even for $1,500 I don't think there's another unit on this planet that can compete with the 3000. (Except perhaps the original TYROS but even that is not so clear.)

Squeak,
All I can say is that you are lucky you didn't buy a PSR-3000.
I had a Tyros(1) that I got rid of to get my 3k.
I love everything about it...the very light weight,the terrific action,the great sounds(Piano,Guitars,Organ Strings and more) and also the 128 note poly.
It is by far the best arranger keyboard for the price...nothing comes even close.
It is perfect for me.
It is also not for everyone...but very few,if any,instruments are.
Sure glad to see you posting again,and I hope things are going well for you.
All the best,
Ian

When I read this review posted by Squeak, the first thing I did was to look at the date postsed. I thought that perhaps this was a review done at the very beginning release of the PSR3000 and perhaps without really spending much time with this keyboard.
I have been selling the PSR3000 now for just 2 years and for almost everyone wishing an arranger keyboard with styles and recording this keyboard has the designation in my store as the overall "winner" since I've been selling arranger keyboards since the early 1080's.
Everyone is entitiled to their opinion but I have to totaly disagree with your verdict. I think the sounds are wonderful, the styles are live and in your face and the large variety of features, including 128 note polyphony is all alone compared to others out there in the marketplace, even these two years later.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Squeak,

I couldn't disagree more with your assessment of the 3000. There are a few things that must be done in the Globab EQ in order to tweek the over sounds, but once this is done the sounds are alive, vibrant and IMO there is nothing short of the Tyros or Tyros2 that even comes close. Two years of gigging with this machine and like Fran with his G-1000, you would be hard pressed to come up with something better.

Good Luck on whatever keyboard you eventually decide upon,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

To be honest.. I hated the 3000 for the first month that I owned it... However, i'm on my 6 tune using this board and I get a lot of compliments on the bass and drums and how pro all the sounds are.... It took me a while to change to a new board but now that I have... I really love the 3000.. Even had it up on Ebay till I came around.. This board just needs time...

Now, it will be hard to change to another board!!!

Squeak I personally think judging by your post that you DONT need an arranger KB at all for the kind of music you looking to create, BTW didn't you buy a 2k & didn't like that either? did you actually buy a 3000/1500?....I'm led to believe you would be better off using a Synth Workstation like the Fanthom X or Motif, etc .. would be better fit for your needs...great sounds & more importantly more flexibility & on-board features to CREATE your own styles & sounds.
In this game you really need to get what you specifically need to accomplish the job at hand. The 3k is an awesome unit in so many ways for so many players for many reasons, I hope you find what your looking for down the road.

good luck

Squeak:

Different Strokes for Differnt Folks. I love my 3000. I also have a Clavinova CVP 307 that's a great instrument. Strangely enough I spend more time at the 3000, because that's what I gig with. Hope you find a board that fits your needs.

OH let me clarify something here. I have more than found my happy place with my keyboard needs.

My set up is "all" synth/workstations. I figured out a long time ago that arrangers would not work for me.

My current set up is a Yamaha MO8, Roland RS-70, and I'm waiting for my Roland Juno-G to arrive I did have the Alesis Fusion 6HD, but man that synth was a NIGHTMARE! The WORST , and "choc full'o bugs" OS I've ever seen. Alesis should be ashamed of themselves.

I just wanted to post a review on the 3000/1500 since I had a chance to really dig into them. Also to Gary, if you read up in my review you'll see I did adjust the global EQ I still wasn't pleased

However, just because I don't like it really means nothing I guess. We all have our personal tastes. Well cheers folks. Back to "Synth Heaven" for me. Keep rocking out those arrangers.

Squeak

Squeak,
We couldn't agree more on the Alesis Fusion keyboard. Several months back, my Alesis rep and a keyboard specialist from Alesis paid my store a visit. I was so excited to see the finished product because when I saw it at last years NAMM show it was only partially completed. It looked pretty good.......but when I plugged it in a listened to the sounds, I think I've never heard a worse sample base instrument. I asked what happened to the QS6,7 and 8 sounds? Did they completely put new samples into this instrument? The answer was yes and I said if they expect to sell any of these they would have to go back to the drawing board. I don't think anyone could listen to the Pianos, Strings, Guitars, Brass, Woodwinds and like what they hear. On paper the machine is awsome for the price, but in listenening, I gave it an "F".
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

George,
Amen to that! Yes that board deserved the "F" you gave it I myself was shocked at how "sh@tty" it sounded. Even with the latest OS update it still sounded poor and below the competition. I too asked "where are the QS sounds! I only assumed they'd build upon those, but boy were we wrong I had that board out and back in the box in less than 8 hours. Sent it right back! Can't wait to get my Juno-G.

Squeak

Good to see you back Squeak.
Have you thought of using softsynths?
Hypersonic2 might well give you some very good sounds.

I would like to add my thoughts on this topic of the PSR 3000.

I have played alot with the KN7, Tyros 1 and 2. I currently own a PSR3000. my previous board was the KN6500.

having the technics, I wanted something with far more contemporary patterns and a much punchyer sound. I walked into my local "Allens Music" store in Sydney and there was a Tyros 1, PSR 1500 and PSR 3000 next to eachother.

in the shop the PSR and the 1500 sound very tinny and "cheap"

Unless the PSR 3000 has a decent set of speakers hooked up to it - it sounds no where near its potential.

take it into a quiet room, plug in a set of speakers equivalent to the Tyros speakers and tweak the EQ and the board comes alive. It sounds sooooo close to the quality of the Tyors. You really have to be very perdantic and actually look hard to find the differences.

I found it a huge jump from the technics range. patterns are much more fuller and clearer, Drums sound so much more realistic.

I hated how with technics all the panel sounds have all this reverb and chorus effects packed on them.

If you are into Accordians, organs and solo brass voices than the technics still shines in that department.

For those who have seen the Michele Voncken demo videos of the Tyros 1 and Tyros 2, if that guy did the same on the PSR 3K you would all be amazed. yes there is a demo of Michele Voncken on the PSR 3000, and it is a major let down becuase he does not play anything like he does on the Tyros keyboards.

My comparison from the PSR 3k to the Tyros 1 is the following:
Tyros has better key feel
Tyros has more voices - mainly synth and pad
PSR has in built speakers
PSR can have USB thumb drives

the style count is irrelevant as styles can be interchanged between the two boards.

put the 2 boards onto the same set of speakers and I garantee no one would be able to hear the differences.

Thanks for reading.
Nick

Well I'm waiting for the day Yamaha gets their act together and (re-releases) the DJX, and builds off the original, and not the cheap stripped down II version. The original DJX had some of the coolest modern styles (and it was an arranger).

Currently I don't think any arranger out there has the more modern appeal to it with styles. Since I am a Roland fan I will probably look at the new Roland E-60 or E-50 as an add on arranger to my growing synth collection.

Squeak

Squeak,when yamaha bought out their flagships,9000 and pro, everyone said what great boards, well built,great keys,but why can,t they make it lighter,many that have the tyros 2 have said that there are vast improvements ocompared to the 9000 & pro,and far lighter.You have to be fair ,Yamaha listen to the members here and they deliver lots of what is asked for. Maybe your standards are much higher, and yamaha are not for you .mike

I agree with Squeak's review. The special voices are excellent, but the regular voices, except for guitars and electric pianos, are boring and some are unusueable.
They don't have any modern styles (not that I would use them anyways ).
That being said, the PSR1500 and PSR3000 have no competion, unfortunately.
I'm looking forward to demo the E60 and would like too see Squeak's review.
Starkeeper

Mike,
I don't think my standards are high (hell I used to have the Casio WK-3500--and loved that board)--

Personally I think Yamaha focuses too much (lately) on the signature voices, and not enough to the panel voices.

Like I said my simple Roland RS-70 that only cost me $629.00 has panel voices that blow the 3000 away (including the grand piano--of course my opinion on that considering how subjective sounds are). Personally I can't stand the pianos on the upper PSR's and have always liked Rolands to all others.

I think I was very fair in my review. I really dug into those keyboards, and spent hours on them (not minutes, but hours--tweeking this tweeking that and so on).

Sure those signature voices shine, but for me that's where it stops. Plus the drums, my goodness! Sorry, but I still say they lack any punch. Yamaha has always been weak on the drums with the PSR's (and I know I'm not the only one here who feels that way too). Rolands drums have so much bite to them, and the pure sound has all the natrual effects from the kit, such as hearing the snare buzz when hitting the toms and bass drums, plus ghost notes as well. Roland has got their sh@t together when it comes to drums!

Of course the 3000 works well for many here because like I said it fits their styles of music (being more traditional--as arrangers have always been designed primarily for) which is fine, but it falls seriously short for anything modern.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 05-30-2006).]

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 05-30-2006).]

Squeak, many opinions vary on all boards and that is fine,even tyros owners have qualms, like more keys. Your opinion is also good because justified critism is what makes manufacturers listen,maybe one day all the benefits from the best boards will be found in one board,and then everyone will be happy,well maybe, 8> ).

[This message has been edited by nardoni2002 (edited 05-30-2006).]

Squeak,
I'm glad you spent the time with the 3k and found it wasn't for you.
We all hear with different ears,and we all use our boards for different purposes.
I played the RS-70 and found it totally useless for what I do,which is playing "live" with a style backing.
It probably serves some purpose,but it is not on my list of keyboards to own.
Thankfully the 3k is perfect for my needs,and, as I have already said,it is by far the best arranger for the money,and better than some other brands that cost a lot more.
Again,sound is subjective,but after playing the RS-70,I feel that it's sounds are no where near as rich and powerful as the 3k.Of course,that is my opinion.
The RS-70 is an entry level synth and as such,it falls short of the other offerings by Roland both in key feel(the one I played had already developed noisy keys) and polyphony.Also not having aftertouch was a serious omission.The D-Beam was fun.
Perhaps the Juno G will be what you seek.
The MO 8 is a nice board...I played one this past weekend.Lovely action...all smooth and brimming with quality.

All the best, and may you find the right keyboard for your needs.
Ian

Ian,
The RS-70 or probably any synth for that matter isn't going to work for anyone who likes a "style" backing --considering the RS is just that "a synth"

I'm not comparing the RS to the entire voice set of the 3000. I'm not comparing the RS's voices to Yammies sweet, cool, live, and mega voices.... Those voices shine all on their own I'm talking about the RS-70's 64mb sound set as a whole compared to the panel voices of the 3000 with disregard to any "special" voices.

What did you play the RS through as well? I'm using a set of "Berhingers" (Former Roland Micro Monitors-same speakers with the Berhinger name).

I'll throw some demos together and email them to you (since you've already played the RS, and have an idea of what it sounds like).

Squeak

Hi Squeak,
I listened through DS-8 Bi-Amp Monitors and headphones(RH-300,I believe).The Roland rep,Danny Doiron,is an old friend,and I actually used to do some demos for him way back when the E-70 and subsequent models were introduced.
I also tried the new VP-550 Vocal & Ensemble Keyboard which was way cool. He didn't have a Juno-G.
If I was in a band,or doing some studio work,the RS-70 might be handy for "color"sounds as it does do analogue quite well.
I'd be tickled to hear some demos.
All the best,
Ian

Ian -Just curious how easy it would be to use the VP550, to record or play live back-up vocals? Did it sound good enough to be used in for this application? Or is it just another gimmick board? (one you use once or twice then sell or put back in a corner to collect dust)

I would appreciate your comments.

Thanks

Ed

These are the reasons that 3k is a hit(for the arranger OMB gigs-the purpose of the KB).

usb to device
SM slot
VH
SMF playback and arranger integration + more functional multi pads
light weight
more poly and sound rom than the competition
more useful styles(less busy)/better fills
easy /effective OS and display
better and stronger(actually strongest) 3rd party support
ok priced(though it should be around $1200)


even the hardware and general non sweet/live/cool voices are dissapointment,it never fails to beat the competition for more than 2 yrs as an arranger.


this is what competition has to offer(weaker in must have areas)

korg pa50-less priced,overall better punchier wkstation sound,better seq,sound editing(dual seqs-great idea wasted by FD drive),OS and display suffers,bad fills and chord reg not as smooth

roland exr7 - better keys(also nice cut) but other features and sound(expt ac piano)way below both korg and function wise below yam psr 1500.

So you have no choice,as long as Korg(late to act),roland(refuse to listen)(they-roland- forgot why e 86 beated i3 in the early 90's in arranger market.)

3k will still be the king for above mentioned reasons unless other KB maufactures start to listen,do radical changes(must have functions,weight,etc) and sell with a right price .




[This message has been edited by jamman (edited 05-30-2006).]

Hi Ed,
For the very short time I had with it,I was very impressed with the VP550.
Because it is a dedicated vocoder/harmonizer it is light years ahead of the vocal harmony in the Tyros/3k.
Because I was in the middle of doing demos for Yamaha,and the room where the VP550 was set up across the street from me was full of other reps demoing guitars/amps/PAs,I wasn't able to heart it for any extended period.
I was very very impressed with what I did hear and can assure you that it is a powerful tool for the studio,and "live" performance.Flexibility was the most outstanding feature,along with quality.
My next trip to Halifax will probably give me more time to explore the other manufacturer's products,and if so,I will certainly pass it on.

Ian

I received my first VP550 yesterday from Roland for my store. My first impression was "quality" right out of the box. This is a keyboard made in Japan and it looked like it was made in the early 1980's......large switches, nice feeling keyboard and not too many buttons. I read the owners manual for a couple of minutes. Roland explains the history behind the vocoder (back to 1939) and where it's been through 2006. I am very impressed with the quality of the harmonies created and the ensemble sounds which combine with the vocals. The sound is full, rich and acurate. The vocoder mode is equally powerful. The final mode is a bass split mode which contains 4 different jazz and pop "scat" style bass voices. A very impressive product. It's not cheap! The retail price here in the USA is about $1595 and the street price will be around $1200.00.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

[This message has been edited by George Kaye (edited 06-02-2006).]

George, I find it amazing that Yamaha sent you the VP550..

Squeak:

Glad to see you are back amongst us again. I am not qualified to comment about your opinion of the 3000 since I don't own one and have not even had the opportunity to demo this highly touted board. I've got to admit that yours was the most negative review of it that I have seen to date but I respect your opinion. (That's why they make Fords and Chevys!) To each his own.

Unfortunately, I'm still using a 2000 and really can't complain about the results I get from it. I just cannot perform a value analysis that justifies spending the bucks to upgrade to a newer unit. Maybe someday in the future we will see a more affordable Yammie line with all the bells and whistles everyone keeps wishing for. Until then, I'm gonna keep hammering away at my old arranger.

I find that the ability to "tweak" styles to achieve sounds that we don't hear much on the radio these days is a tremendous edge. I get lots of comments from professional musicians about how surprised they are to hear just how much sound versatility can be achieved from an arranger.

Welcome back. All my best.

Dave Rice

http://www.roland.com/products/en/VP-550/index.html

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-02-2006).]