Hello

I'm considering upgrading from my single X stand. I would prefer a solid double X stand, lightweight with a "memory lock", in other words once the height is set you just unfold the stand and its set.

I understand the Monolith is rock steady. Is there a double X stand as steady or very close to it?

I would prefer one that I can add a mic boom to and possibly a music rack.

Thanx

Scott Langholff

[This message has been edited by Scott Langholff (edited 03-30-2003).]

Hi Scott,
As you can see by my equipment post that I use a Quik-Loc stand, which is rock solid and quite rugged. It holds two keyboards and set up time is a few seconds. A spring loaded pin positions the stand and unless the welds break, I don't think it will collapse.

I also have an Ultimate Stand, one that also holds two boards and made from heavy-gauge aluminum tubing. Set-up time however, is about five minutes because every part must be assembled.

As for an attached mic, I don't recommend them at all. I've used them on both stands, and other than for announcements, they present problems. First, the mic must be switched off during performances because the sound of your fingers on the keyboard's keys are transmitted through the keyboard stand and produce the same sound that you would hear if the mic were on a normal stand and your fingers thumped against the stand--not good.

If you are a singer, as most of us are, and also a reader, the mic is never in the right position to see the music/lyrics and still maintain the correct position in front of the mic to provide good vocals. For that reason, I switched to a headset mic and eliminated all of those problems. You may want to think seriously about the headset mic instead of attaching one to the keyboard stand.

Cheers,

Gary

Now for the point-counterpoint:
Stand mounted mics MAY transmit a small ammount of residual noise IF the kb stand is not solid, and IF you bang real hard on the keys, and IF your mic is set too loud.

Many, many players (including DNJ, Fran and myself, on this forum) have used this method for YEARS with no adverse effect. The trick is in the construction - you need a good solid, bounce free envirnment, and you need to have the proper settings on the mic levels. Singing over a kb with internal speakers requires that the mic technique be a "close" one. Kissing the mic, if you prefer. That allows the most signal to enter the mic with the LEST amount of outside noise allow with it. Headset mics reduce feedback problems, but there is not even ONE model that comes close to the quality and sound that a hand held mic can provide. If you are willing to sacrifice vocal quality and mic technique ..... a headset will provide you with less feedback and a small amount of ease of set up .... if you like being tied to the amp, and feeling like a hospital patient with a monitor in your temple. ( )
Needless to say .... the headset is NOT for me.

Scott,

I guess it's no secret on this forum that I am a BIG proponent of the Ultimate Apex keyboard stands: http://www.ultimatesupport.com/apex.html

For me it provides the following key attributes:

Rock Solid
Memory positions for keyboards.
Ultra fast setup/break down.
Will hold 2 200 lb keyboards or ONE really big musician.

I love the single post concept as it does not take up much room when I setup in very tight stages. I also like the legs on the bottom for positioning my pedals so they don't "Creep" on me.

Well there you have it, I've used this stand for 60 gigs in the last year and I'm convinced I would not use anything else.

Al G

[This message has been edited by kbrkr (edited 03-30-2003).]

I've played on other people's Apex stand rigs and found that the stand/keys moved from side to side, which is logical since the center of gravity is in the middle.

I still don't trust X-stands in any fashion. All of the weight of your keyboard rig plus your playing impact is forced upon a small aluminum pin, questionable welds, and/or other locking mechanism... and they can fail spectacularly I can tell you from experience.

The Monolith is as infallible and stable a design as I've seen and it costs about what other stands do. I really go for products that are innovative like the Monolith because if they are successful then they force other manufacturers to be more innovative also. They aren't there to pick up the pieces when things go wrong.

Also worth considering is the Z-stand made by QuikLok. I have one that I am turning into a portable studio console for a production company. They are a little heavy and take time to assemble/disassemble per gig but they are very stable.

[This message has been edited by The Pro (edited 03-31-2003).]

I agree with Uncle Dave....
Believe me when your doing over 1000 gigs a year between the 3 of us UD's set up which includes an "X" stand with accessories for Laptop & Mic is pure genius for us, totaly flexible, portable and lightweight to suit any and all situations as a one man KB performance artist.
IMO there is NO better design at this time, and we've tried many.
As far as a Headphone Mic.....sorry but IMO
"Two Thumbs Down" for so many reasons reserved for another thread sometime.

------------------
www.donnypesce.com



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 03-31-2003).]

I concur with Pro. My VOTE also goes to the Quiklok Monolith Stand, though it doesn't support a mic boom or music rack add on. The Monolith is the only portable (collapsible folding) stand that I would say is truly 'rock steady' preventing your Keyoboard from bouncing, like the X stands and Apex stands tend to do. Another reason I don't like the Apex stand is because the center column juts up high ABOVE the keyboard and can block your face (from the audience).

For super quickie gigs, I'll probably take the Quiklok X Stand, but for 'anything' more, the Monolith stand offers rock solid KB stability, and it looks so MUCH more slick & professional as well, and offers a LOT more leg room for pedals, and saves your knees as well, because there are no obstructing cross X beams to contend with. The great thing about the Monolith is that it folds completely FLAT. - Scott

Hi ScottY

According to the Pro the mic boom for the Quiklok Z stand fits the Monolith. He also has a pic of his set-up using this in the following thread.
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/006153.html

Scott Langholff

[This message has been edited by Scott Langholff (edited 03-31-2003).]

My IQ2000 (USS double X) doesn't bounce at all.

Great News! , especially because, in an earlier conversation with a Quiklok rep, I was informed that there was no Quiklok mic boom attachment available which could be attached to the Monolith Stand.

Ok, I've got to order one now. Pro (or somebody else here): Please provide the specific Quiklok 'mic boom' attachment part number. Also, WHERE and HOW does the mic boom attach to the Monolith Stand?

Scott

The Monolith can be used with BOTH the mic boom and music rack from the Z series (references Z-728, Z-732 ). I own all of them and it's a super stable setup. I prefer this stand to a double X stand, like the Quiklok QL-641, which I also own. More stable, and more advanced concept. Only weaknesses: the weight (the price to pay...) and the system which was chosen for changing the position in height - not very practical, but solid. I use the Monolith for most of my long gigs (private parties, weddings), which represent most of my jobs.

I agree that for a quick gig an X stand may be preferable (a simple X stand will take less space in the trunk of the car). I use a T-10 with second tier (for the Ketron module) and have the accessories (mic boom and music rack) but I don't recommend to use them together, even with light keyboards, 'cause the stability is very poor: to the point of beeing dangerous for your equipment.

No experience with Apex stands whatsoever.

-- José.

Scott: the mic boom is the QuikLok Z-728. There are plastic caps inserted in the end of the arms of your Monolith that support the keyboard - you pop one out and the mic boom slides right in, then you tighten it with a screw knob. I suspected that QuikLok didn't know this or they'd have modified their web catalog to show that the Z-728 boom works with the Monolith. I found out by chance.

[This message has been edited by The Pro (edited 03-31-2003).]

Hello

Thanks for all the input. It looks like I may have to consider the Monolith, unless the QLX-21 has no bounce. Does anyone have any experience with this one. It also has the feature of opening to the same setting just by opening it. The attachments fit this one also.
http://www.quiklok.com/catalog.music

Scott Langholff

[This message has been edited by Scott Langholff (edited 03-31-2003).]

José and Pro: Thanks to both of you for your prompt response. I assume that during transport, you remove both the mic boom and music stand attachments, right? How easily (quickly) can they be attached to the Monolith stand? Any special tools required?

José: Realizing that the Z-732 music stand must be attached to either the 'far right' or 'far left' side of the Monolith stand, is it possible to position (swivel left & right) the music stand inwards 45 degrees towards the center of the KB, to insure a better view of the music from your position (seated or standing) at the center of the KB?

Looks like I may be ordering BOTH the Z-728 mic boom: http://www.quiklok.com/search_list.taf?_function=detail&Layout_0_uid1=82

and Z-732 music stand: http://www.quiklok.com/search_list.taf?_function=detail&Layout_0_uid1=86

Scott

I remove my mic stand everytime I move the stand. It takes seconds... loosen the knob and go. I don't remember if the mic stand came with a knob or I just used one that I had, but the knob-screws that work with the Z-stand are what I use to hold the mic stand in place once it's inserted into the Monolith arm. In lieu of the knobs, you could use a large hardware store thumbscrew. The only tool you'll need is a regular screwdriver to take out the plastic end cap plug from the Monolith the first time you use it for holding one of your stands.

[This message has been edited by The Pro (edited 03-31-2003).]

ScottYee,

Yes, I transport the mic boom and the music rack both detached from the Monolith stand. The knobs are included with these options and they're extremely easy to attach to the stand once you remove the plastic plug from the Monolith arms, the first time - just like the Pro describes.

Two things must be said:
1) You might find the music rack a little too big/heavy/cumbersome and the transport not very practical. But it's very solid.
2) The mic boom can ONLY be attached to the left arm (as in The Pro's picture) and the music rack only to the right arm. You'll understand why; tomorrow I'll post a picture with details.

NO, the music rack can not tilted inwards, it's a rigid piece in which the section that inserts the Monolith arm has a rectangular shape. More details in some pics tomorrow.

Scott Langholff,

QLX series are the Quiklok model to go if you want a double X tier with optional mic boom and music rack. They are OK, but I prefer the Monolith for an edge in stability (and for other reasons I explained above). If your keyboard is heavy it can make a difference.

-- José.

Here are the pics that I promised. Sorry that they toke so long to show up.

-- José.




[This message has been edited by matias (edited 04-03-2003).]

Thanks for the pictures. I've been looking for a more sturdy keyboard stand than my X-stand. I like your setup, so I think I'll go with a similar one. Thanks again for helping make up my mind.

Peter

How do you use Two keyboards with this setup?

Al

I don't think that you can. Remember that the mic and music stand are items which normally fit the QuikLok Z-stand - we just figured out that they will also work when inserted into the Monolith's 2nd tier slots. If you used the normal Monolith add-on 2nd keyboard arms, the slots would be filled and you couldn't use the mic boom and music stand like this.

The Pro's right. I don't have this setup when I use two keyboards (or a controller keyboard + module). In that case I use the basic stand with the optional M-2 second tier only (see attached pics); the Z-728 & Z-732 can't be used together with this last setup, for the reasons that The Pro pointed out.

-- José.

José: MANY thanks for posting the great closeup shots of your Monolith stand with mic boom and music stand assemblies attached.

I notice that both your mic boom and music stand units are each secured to the Monolith stand by a large black knob screw.

Did your Z-728 'mic boom' and Z-732 'music stand' each come with the black knob screws, or did you have to purchase the knob screws separately?

Thanks.

Scott

Scott,
The large knob screws in the pictures ARE included in the Z-728 and Z-732, so you don't have to order them separately.
-- José.

This stand is heavy, it weighs in at [23.3lbs], plus its so wide folded and is Not easily transported or stackable on a cart or in a vehicle. Attached Accessories have to be removed on each setup/breakdown also Arggg!
I sent one back after one gig.
Might be ok for a studio setup.

José: Great to hear the knobs are included.


Donny: though the Monolith may be a little heavier than a double braced X stand, it takes up virtually no extra storage space in my car, as it lies 'totally flat' on the bottom of the trunk.

For the quickie in/out gigs, I'll continue to take my Quiklok X stand, but for the higher paying full evening events , I always take the Monolith stand because it offers 'rock solid' keyboard stability (no bounce or movement whatsoever), complete underneath the keyboard clearance (no X stand type cross beams to obstruct your knees/ankles, and also allows limitless foot pedal controler placement). Above all, the Monolith's sleek design looks far more elegant & classy on stage (as evidenced by the Pro's stage setup) than any X stand can. For my clients willing to pay decent money, it's well worth my time (and small extra hassle) to provide the equipment needed to not only insure that I deliver great live musical entertainment, but a classy visual appearence as well. It's important to note that these events (weddings, anniversaries, etc) are usually captured on video by pro videographers, so preserves a lasting impression of the event which get viewed by many people beyond the immediate family. In fact, several times I've been hired solely from someone seeing me on one of these videos. Though our music may be paramount, stage set & appearence (image) counts right up there too. - Scott

Scott,


Just not my thing for my performances....
Nothing is better then UD's "Custom X Stand" rig for in and out setups with full attached mic/laptop accessory utilities.
If its bouncing its usualy the stage itself not the stand if its double braced and made by a quality manufacturer like [Quik Lok] or
[On Stage].





[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 04-04-2003).]

Donny, how 'bout a photo? Thx...

I'm in between dig cameras right now....sold my Nikon looking for a new model.
But possibly uncle Dave could accomodate with a pic?

------------------
www.donnypesce.com

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 04-04-2003).]

A digital camera is very convenient for taking pix to email to others.

Hey Scott,
Did you ever buy a new stand? After reading what someone said about the possibility of welds breaking and aluminum pins shearing, I looked carefully at the construction of my QuicLoc double X stand. In order for the stand to collapse, you would have to break eight welds--not one, and for the pin, the one in mine is stainless steel--not aluminum. It's rock solid, doesn't bounce, wiggle and even quiver. Because I use two keyboards, I'm always worried about stability--this one is about as stable as they get. I have looked at some of the single post stands, and while they looked great, I was not real confident about their stability.

UD said something to the effect of using a headset mic being akin to beeing tethered to a hospital monitor. Not in my case. When I hard wired to the mixer, the mic is connected through a 25 foot mic cable with a built in on/off switch at the connector. There are time, however, when I'm hooked up with a remote transmitter that fits in my vest pocket and a 9-volt batter lasts about six hours. Kinda neat for doing a midi of "Fever" and walking through the audience singing to the ladies.

Good Luck,

Gary

gary,

send me a video of that routine

Donny, I figured that if anyone was doing this kind of performance it would be you and UD. If I had a video I would be more than happy to send you one, however, it's difficult to shoot video in low-light conditions. However, this is sometimes to my advantage, especially when it's dark enough so the ladies can't tell that they guy singing to them now fits into the "old geezer" category. Last night, I performed Fever using the remote mic and was propositioned by three ladies who all wanted to take my home--good thing the lights were really low!

Cheers,

Gary

I walk into the crowd with a wireless sometimes, but to be honest ..... I don't want them seeing the kb on "auto pilot" too often. There is already too much speculation as to the neccessity of the player. I hate to fan THAT flame. "Working" the crowd is an invaluable tool, no matter how you do it. Getting in their face (usually) is a big hit.

Hi Gary: I agree with you that your double braced X stand offers the stability you need for 2 kbs. In constrast to your more elabarate gig setup, I only need to take along one lightweight keyboard, so luckily my old budget Quiklok X stand has held up & withstood the test of continous usage (10 years +) for those quickie gigs. Scott

Hi Gary

No I haven't bought a stand yet. Been too busy at work right now. I've just been promoted to manager to the Pensacola and Fort Walton Fletcher Music Centers in the Florida Panhandle. Worlds largest Lowrey organ dealer.

As far as the stands I can see pros and cons for both. I like the idea of the possibility of the Monolith, but the weight and the attachments can only be put on just exactly opposite the way I want them.

I will still think about it a bit. It would be nice if I could see a Monolith locally, but I don't think I'll find one. I know one store has the QLX-21 that opens to the same place everytime its set. I am leaning towards that one because of price, weight, quick set up, less storage space needed, there are a lot of attachments available etc.

So unless its bouncy I will probably get the double X stand.

Scott Langholff

Donny

Are you saying you can leave your mic boom attached to the stand for transport. That would be a nice plus.

Scott Langholff

Yes Scott,

With Uncle Daves design you leave the
Mic Boom attached AND the Laptop holder also. It just all folds up for transport.
No need for a Mic Stand or a big bulky Lyric book, music stand etc etc ...travlin light is a major concern for us.

Donny, (et al)
I'll try to photograph the "UD-XX" (Uncle Dave's Double X ?) stand for you and maybe you can post it? I never did get the knack of how to do that. Two of my girls are home sick today, so I have some free time on my hands ...... I'll see if I can dig up a snapshot for ya'll!

Basically, I started with an USS IQ2000 stand, but others will fit. "On Stage" and "Quick-Lok" also make stands with similar sized tubing. (28 or 30 mm tubes)

Quick-Lok makes add on sleeves that slide over the end of the tubes and have arms bolted to them. They make mic booms as well as extra kb tiers.

I have a mic boom arm attached to each back end cap, and I modified one of the arms to accommodate a custom fitted tier to hold my laptop. It sits about 2 inches above the kb on my left, and it looks sleek and unobtrusive. This allows me to look at the screen to call up midi files, MP3, etc without turning my head away from the audience. It also provides plenty of light and has a handy clock right on the screen!
(No more fumbling to see a watch, or straining to see in the dark)

From the front two arms ..... I straddle the handle from my rack bag that houses: Harmonizer, mixer, Kosmos and ALL wires and a/c extension cord. I unzip the bag, and all the wires are premeasured and waiting to be plugged in. This puts all controls at my fingertips .... right below the keys. No turning of the head to adjust volumes or tone. No extra gig bag is needed. Everything I need is right there. This means ..... one less thing to have to store during a performance. I store the speaker covers in the kb bag, and that's the only thing that has to be "hidden" during a show. If there is no closet handy, then I can slip it under a table or behind a couch and keep it out of sight.

My basic setup has vocals and pc routed through the mixer and INTO the kb speaker inputs for monitoring. Then I run the outputs of the kb into the KOSMOS and on to the speakers. This serves as a mixer/enhancer and works like a charm.
So ..... a full setup for a moderate to large affair consists of :
1)kb bag
1)rack bag
1)DB-XX stand
2)EV speakers (in bags)
1)laptop
(Smaller affairs ..... less speakers. The sound is always the same ... just louder or quieter as needed) The speakers and laptop are optional. Usually only for larger jobs, where I need music on breaks or more power for dancing. I work 2 rooms each week that have house systems, so bringing the EV's is not necessary
.........I sometimes choose to put the speakers up on sticks, but because of the angle brackets that come with the speakers (sxa100) .... I get great coverage with a cleaner look if I keep the speakers on the floor. They angle UP so volume is dispersed without firing directly at anyone's ears. I rarely get complaints about volume ..... if I do - it's usually ... "turn it up !" (I do that on purpose)

I realize this is boring stuff without pictures, but I can't get to the gear at this time, and I AM sitting at the 'puter so ......... I thought I'd try to describe the system for ya.
I'll work on a shot as soon as I can, but maybe Donny will get his new camera first !

This also looks like a stable, quick to set up, fold-flat stand. Has anyone tried it?
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/zzoundsmdc/kamkks100.html

Regards,
Alex

Alex, I got 2 of them I didn't get mine from
zzsounds but it looks exactly like the ones I
have.
Mine are very solid no wiggle or jiggle.
I bought the first one 3.5 yrs. ago with my
KN5000 which I still have.
I liked it so well that I bought another one
for the 9000 Pro.
Enjoying the 9000 PRO
Denny

Denny, does it accomodate any accessories, like mic boom, music stand?