Has anyone had experience with, or have opinions about Holistic "Medicine"? Holostic Medicine is basically various forms of alternative, natural health treatment. It includes life style, food and nutrition, detoxification, dental health, and muscle testing.

Glenn

What do you want to know?

I used to have a business in Alternative Medicine for 7 years doing various things and working with several MD's in this field.

Obviously this is a huge topic and a bit big and out of contest for this forum.

You're welcome to e-mail me your questions and/or talk to me on the phone wich is much easier.

I'll be working tomorrow all day (13hours), but I'm available Wed. and Thur.

Let me know

Eric

Glenn,

I've had limited success with my diabetes using supplements and herbs. The old standbys of diet and exercise work best. Before you do anything rash please check out www.quackwatch.com. Many of these folks are as phony as a three dollar bill and are only out to heal your checkbook.

Tom

I see a naturopathic doctor rather then a traditional family doctor. You may email me as well. I'm an anti-establishment rebel of sorts, so you should acept my opions with a grain of salt.
I had insulin resistance, which is a way of saying premature diabetes. I healed myself with diet & exercise as well. I think exercise helped more then the diet.
My wife is diabetic, and keeps her diabetes in check with herbs and supplements. She refuses to diet & exercise, so it is unlikely that she will be healed, IMO.
Starkeeper

[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 05-23-2006).]

My firm belief is that the nearer you get to nature, the better you are. After all, that is what we came from and our ancestors thrived on plants in the first instance. That is why we suffer from 'modern' packed meals etc which are full of man-made thingies and lots of chemicals.
For ten years now, I have taken a daily dose (30ml) of INTRA which consists of the extracts of 21 herbs, specially chosen by the masters of nutrition. It is offered by a compnay called 'Lifestyles' which is based in Canada and is sold throughout the world.
Anyone else know of this wonderful supplement?
cheers
Eddie J

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Eddie from Rotherham
Skype:eddiefromrotherham
www.yamahakeyboards.info

Hi Tom,

as I said beore this is a big topic.
You are right that nobody should rush into ANYTHING.
Even surgery. Kind of common sense.

The webside you provided does'nt give you any acurate info either.

Let me enlighten you...
Besides my business that I had, I'm currently working as a Registered Nurse in a Hospital, so I know both worlds very well.

Fact: every year more than 100.000 people die from side effects of drugs in the US alone.
Fact: nobody has died from a Vitamin or Herb when correctly taken.

Fact: every year a lot of people die on the operating table which is often HUMAN error.
Fact: nobody has died on the Accupuncture or Massage table.

The Chinese have taken Ginseng successfully for various things for thousands of years.
That should make them somewhat of an expert.
When studies were done in the US they showed it wasn't effective.

However the US used 200mg of Ginseng per day, whereas the chinse use 2.000mg of Ginseng a day.
Fact: Studies in Russia showed that soldiers who took 2.000mg of Ginseng per day for 1 year did not have any viral infections.

Fact: Western medicine will give you Insulin and/or Oral Hypoglycemics for the rest of your live to heal YOUR check book.
Even though not everytime, but I have seen many times people cured from Diabetes using a combination of diet, exercise, herbs and other tratment designed for that specific person.

I have seen Quacks doing Alternative medicine and I have seen Quacks doing Western Medicine.
Some Doctors could offer there services for free and I still would'nt let them touch me.

I have seen Miracles in Western Medicine and I have seen Miracles in Alternative Medicine

I have seen some awesome honest Doctors and I have seen some awesome honest alternative Practitioners.

It all depends on sooooo many factors.
Again too much to really discuss here.

Only because someone is an alternative Practitioner doesn't make them a master.
Only because somebody has a MD behind their name doesn't make them a Master either.

Only because somebody has a KB and calls himself a OMB doesn't mean he can play or sing.

It's with everything in life.
You gotta do your homework with an open mind.

Eric

I concur with Eric 100% based on my researches & experiences. I totally lost my faith in allopathic medicines except for emergency procedures. The best way imho is to back in natural way of living. I'll expand later.
Jim

Eric,

I didn't need to be enlightened. I've already done my research and knew everything you've posted. I also remember from meeting you at the San Jose Jam (my old age dementia hasn't fully kicked in yet) that you are a RN. I don't disagree with anything you've said.

I'm just saying that there are phony secret "cures" out there practiced and promoted by people out to get the gullable's money.

I do think Quackwatch.com offers a wealth of information based on scientific and relevent facts. It also exposes some of the phony mail order degrees some of these folks have.

All I'm saying is that we should all be informed before we decide on the treatment that is right for us. I take about 10 different herbs and supplements myself. I decided on these, as well as diet and exercise based on considerable research on my part. There does seem to be some progress with the sugar levels using this course of treatment. Of course my losing 30 pounds probably also helped a lot.

I do have a disclaimer on the herbs and supplements. If all these things worked as they have been purported to work my blood glucose levels would be negative 10.

I wish I could join you folks at the west coast jam but I spent a good part of my travel budget attending the Shreveport jam. Maybe next time.

I hope you and Claudia and Sunny are all doing well!

Tom

Hi Tom,

point well taken.

I agree that there are some people out there that want to make a quick buck with things like network marketing.
They usually sell herbs that are waaay overpriced. However some of those are really good but veeery expensive over time.

Finding a good and honest practitioner is the key.
I had the fortune to meet a few of those.

The thing about sientific research is that it depends on who does it and how it's been done.
That was the point I was trying to make with the Ginseng study.

I have seen so many wrong reports, both pro and contra alternative medicine.
In alternative medicine you can't do double blind studies, because it doesn't put in account poeples individualty.

10 people might come with a headache to me and they might get 10 totally different treatments, depending on their makeup and cause of the headache.
One might have allergies, anothers neck might be out, someone has high toxic levels, another might have a viral infection, and yet another one might have nutrional defiencies etc.

See were I'm trying to come from?
But again I agree with you to do your homework about a practitioner and his or her qualifications.

BTW congrats on loosing 30lbs. Wow.
That alone must make you feel a lot better.

Regarding the jam: So far only 3 people signed up for the jam.
It might not happen at all.

It would have been great to see and hear you again.

Maybe next time.....

Either way have a great summer

Eric

I mentioned this recently,so for this thread i will repeat it. (COLLOIDAL SILVER).Do a search for yourself, not just one or two do plenty, there are negative responses from people who have support from the large pharmaceutical companies, who are doing their best to repress it(2 cases of skin turning grey).people like you and me who came accross this before were nervous to try it, since then they have become the ones that are singing it,s praises.I am not talking about the people who are selling it (they will say good things about it) (most people make it themselves)it is stated that it kills 650 diseases, it is even used in hospitals to treat burns for rapid healing.spend a few days researching it for yourselves,even then you are not committed to it, but you will be a little wiser. also look on the forums,mike

That's part of what I'm trying to say:
A lot of research comes from the pharmaceutical companies under different names to scare people off, because alternative medicine is a Billion Dollar business.

On the other hand people think sometimes that a certain product is the cure fore all.
In some people it works and others it might not.

As I said it earlier I have seen it all.
As my friend used to say it: in the end it all comes down to whether you are feeling better or not.
If yes keep doing what you are doing (except drugs maybe.. ) if no try something else..

Most of the time it's worth a try.

Eric

Tom,

The best advice I can provide is to trust your instincts. When I was somewhat younger I made my living in medicine. I worked with lots of really great physicians--and a number of really bad ones too. Diet and exercise can cure a number of nasty maladies, however, there are some that this regemin will bit take care of. Heart disease and cancer are a couple that immediately come to mind. I had lots of patients who hoped their cancer would be cured with dietary suppliments--they all died. I also had lots of cardio-pulmanary patients that believed diet and exercise would solve their problems. Those that lost weight and spent at least 30 minutes a day doing vigirous exercise, such as walking on a tread mill, were still alive when I decided to do something else with my life.

Good Luck my friend, and call me if you need more information.

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

I had my first (and probably last) visit with the Holistic MD today. Going in, my attitude was very open, basically feeling that anything is possible and if there's an option to pharmacidical agents (drugs) it's worthwhile checking out.

A large part of the hour was spent on "muscle testing". This is a procedure where your strength is tested with, and then without, him touching a certain pressure point on my body. Then tested while I am holding a vile which contains a certain substance in it. "How could my strength be influenced when I'm not ever touching that substance?" I asked. "Because it has an electro-magnetic field surrounding it, just as your body has", he said.

The only thing I know for sure is that I'm $125 poorer and I doubt going back. My gut feeling (which is usually accurate) says this muscle testing is akin to snake oil and voodo. It also says don't throw good money after bad. Still living and learning after all these years.

Glenn

I go to a chiropractor, love the guy, been going for 10 years due to an accident. I met him when he was just starting his practice.
Now he's getting bigger. I took my daughter in to see him, she's a nurse.
First you meet his receptionist and exchange information then she shows her the office and tells you how things work. Then you get an xray and some other exam with a hand held wand of some sort. end of visit did not see the doctor $35.
Next visit watch a tape, results of exam make a new appointment. Results of exam are a sales pitch for lifetime chiro...$35 no doctor.
Setup 1 hour appointment to meet the doctor and go over all the test results..$$$
Can you imagin going to a dentist for an appointment and he says my receptionist is going to charge you for orientation and xrays and I'll see you on your third appointment.

Like I said the guy is a great doctor, I didn't go through any of that hocus pocus or I probably would have left.
But on one of is chiropractic seminars they told him this is how to increase business, I told him he's probably chasing more away because he acts like a quack.

One day at work I complained of sinus which used to drive me crazy.
A work mate asked me if I would like to get rid of it and if so would I do what he suggested.
I gladly agreed
He told me that when I had a hot drink to put a teaspoon of molasas in it.
I did and have not suffered with it since.
I now take it in only one hot drink a day and it not only protects me from sinus trouble but other infections.
I spend lots of time gardening without gloves and never have a skin infection. Its worked for me.

Cousin Ken

I think a lot of illnesses have been caused by many changes in our NATURAL habits.How much of the fresh fruit, vegetables and salad we buy has been sprayed with chemicals, WE THINK ahh it looks good, so,it must taste good,and so it must be good for us.Organic is better.Most foods in packets jars and tins in supermarkets have additives,preservatives and colouring,we put things in our mouth because we believe what we are told by the officials that it is safe, and many times we find there is corruption involved.We live in environments that have changed, no fresh air (air conditioned, centrally heated with little ventilation).We drive everywhere,and the exercise we get is ,putting shopping into the car,walking to our mailbox, or taking the dog for a walk. Modern day living has changed with many advantages,but through our own ignorance we tend to ignore the disadvantages. Yes we do live longer and the medical sciences have advanced tremendiously.We also (possibly) eat more junk food,smoke more cigs and drink more alcohol.We tend to satisfy self with the latest gadgets to make us feel good rather than do charity work (me included)so we experience pleasure rather than joy,negative news depresses us which we love to voice.
No wonder we get ill and look for cures,better to find and treat the cause(s).
We buy a new car,we lovingly wash it polish it, service it ,then trade it in for a later model,pity we don,t care for ourselves as much cause we cannot trade us in ,we keep going till we get to the scrapper.

Gary has come close to my thinking. If you have learned to listen to your body it will tell most of what it needs. If you stay in tune with your body the communications will increases leading you to the best path to take.

In no way am I putting down the different types of medical information on this post. Just listen and your path becomes clearer. It even has the capabilities to help you select a doctor if you listen real close.

When I asked my doctor what is this stomach doing to me his reply was, “What are you doing to your stomach”? Since then I have found that one of the best ways to stay healthy is to control what I allow to go into my mind.
“Garbage in garbage out” Your immune system is listening to every word.

IMHO John C.

Let me say this about Holistic. My late cousin who was the brother I never had was a Chiropractor and practiced with a Holistic philosopy. He followed a holistic diet for many years. He developed colon cancer at age 46 and treated it holistically, unfortuantely it did not work. By the time he discovered that a colostomy would be the only answer to save him it was too late. He died 1 month before his 50th birthday.

[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 05-24-2006).]

Glenn,
sorry about your experience.

Muscle Testing comes from applied Kinesiology:
http://www.icak.com/about/whatis.shtml

which really has nothing to do with holding an herb that they tell you, you might need.
As you said it: it's just a gimmick.

Alternative medicine can be anything from: Chinese Medicine, Ayurvedic Medicine (from India), Homeopathy, European Herbology etc, etc.

Each one of these requires you to study almost as long or longer as a medical Doctor.
You can learn muscle Tesing in a weekend.
I think that is what Tom was trying to say by providing the link above.

Only because someone uses the word Alternative doesn't mean they know Jack.

Only because somebody has a KB and plays Midi's all night doesn't make him a musician.
If you would see somebody like this for the first time you might say arrangers are crap and not real music.
But we know different, don't we?
It depends on who is using it.

That's why you need to do your homework.
So what; you paid $125.00 for somthing that might have actually helped you if you tried it.
A cat scan might cost between $1.500 and $2.000 and might not tell you anything either, but we don't complain about that.

Stephen,

I feel your pain.
My father died of Cancer at age 58.
He did really well after the first round of Chemo and we had a few really good month together.
Then the Cancer came back and they gave him a 5 times stronger dose of chemo which did him in very fast.
He died a miserable death with not much dignety at the hospital.
Without chemo he would have died anyway but would have had a few more weeks or month with us to share.

Every year millions of people die of cancer and other diseases where Western Medicine seems to fail to help them.
I see it every day at the hospital. Believe me I know.
Why is it that nobody complains about that?
You spend thousands of dollars and die anyway.
But if people dish out a couple of hundred dollars for something that doesn't harm them they get all upset about!

Does Alternative Medicine cure Cancer? No!
Does Western Medicine cure Cancer? No!
Does that mean I (or we) should give up? No!

Sometimes people make it inspite of either of them.

Western Medicine, Chinese Medicine, Ayurvedic Medicine, Homeopathy etc; are all just a piece of the puzzle.
No single one of them has all the answers and /or cures.
But if we(they) all work together we might come a little closer.

Again I have seen Miracles with Western Medicine and I have seen Miracles with Alternative Medicine.
And I have seen both fail.

BTW, when I talk about Alternative Medicine I talk about people who have studied for many years and know there limitations and are working closely together with a Medical team.

One last thing to ponder:

I worked with a Medical Doctor in what is called Integrative medicine, which means you use that best of both worlds.
A lot of chronic patients that came into our office were tested for a comprehensive parasitology via stool samples.
Through a refined diet and high use of antibiotcs you kill the good bacterial flora in the gut. That's a fact and sientifically proven. You can look it up.
A lot (not all) chronic diseases can be linked to a yeast/candida overgrowth in the gut which can make you very sick.

There is only one laboratory in the US that does a comprhensive parasitology.
We had to send the samples overnight express.
They take the stool, culture it and test it against all know Drugs as well as herbs.
Get this: 80% of the time the herbs were stronger to kill the Yeast/Candida.
We had remarkable results with that.
If it said drugs were stronger, we did not hesitate to prescribe those.
No muscle testing was used; just laboratory (sientific) data.

That's only one example.

We know so little, but we judge so easily.

Eric


[This message has been edited by Eric, B (edited 05-24-2006).]

[This message has been edited by Eric, B (edited 05-24-2006).]

Eric,
I am pleased that you took the time to explain in some detail the findings of your experience with various alternatives but especially herbs.
I am absolutely convinced that there is a cure for EVERY disease and illness mankind suffers today and I am also convinced that the cures are there in herbs.
I personally have introduced a number of friends to herbal extracts with astounding results. Yes astounding and I use this word only after careful thought.
Perhaps the strangest success I continue to see is the use of herbs to combat 'depression'. Don't ask me how it works! I don't know. All I know is that I have two unconnected friends who become absolutely normal and free from their depression after a single dose of the herbs.
I continue to be amazed but I don't stop and wonder why, I just accept the wonders.
cheers
Eddie

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Eddie from Rotherham
Skype:eddiefromrotherham
www.yamahakeyboards.info



[This message has been edited by eddiefromrotherham (edited 05-24-2006).]

I am a great believer that the cure for an illnes is often close by.
In the sub tropical mountains of New South Wales there is a stinging tree that if you brush against it it causes terrible pain.
Under the tree is another plant that when you rub its foliage against the wound the pain immediately goes.
I had an uncle that had cancer of the bowel and was given a short time to live.
This was back in the thirties and he was virtually sent home to die.
He started to purge himself every morning with epsom salts.
He lived for many years.
I know this to be true because my mother told me.

Cousin Ken

Use common sense, but be wary of the "doctors" who want to sell you a lot of stuff.

I have visited a chiropractor for a back ache and he helped. I have have known chiropractors who would tell me that their chiro treatment would cure flu and many worse diseases - that was a bunch of BS. In my experience, the chiropractors do help when it comes to musculo-sceletal problems, but hardly anything else.

To address Eric's point above - it is possible for a massage (done incorrectly) to tense up the muscles and cause significant pain afterwards, instead of relaxing them. There have been cases when chiropractic treatments had patients end up with broken vertebrae.

It is true that many medicines have harmful side effects, but they are also used to effectively treat problems. The "natural" supplements and remedies, all of them, have dubious medicinal value, in other words they are very rarely proven to have helped anything. The evidence of their efficacy is usually anecdotal, and most often they don't do better than the placebos in treating problems. Furthermore, despite Eric's assertions, there have been cases of "natural supplements" that had caused deaths.

My wife does work for a company that sells natural supplements. The owners of the company do not take these supplements - to me that is the most telling fact of all.

When we were expecting one of our kids, our friend who is a naturopath had given my wife some stuff that was supposed to take away the pain. This stuff did not work, but waiting for it to kick in we delayed getting the epidural, which does work, for several unbearable hours. As a result, my wife suffered unnecessary pain.

Draw your own conclusions, but remember that Western medicine has proven treatments of many health problems. If you find the alternative approach working, great. But be sure that in your pursuit of alternative treatments you are not delaying proven treatments for too long.

Regards

I think sometimes the best "cure" is prevention. After years of abuse trying to cure a disease is like unringing a bell, imho.
My younger daughter is in school to be a naturopath, also studies,chinese herbology and accupuncture. In her 4th year of a six year year course of study.

Alex,

you are absolutly right.
Western Medicine is the best we ever had for crisis intervention.

When you are in an accident you want an Ambulance not an herbal Doctor.

Kinda common sense isn't it?

People often ask me: I have a headache what herb do you take? And my reply is: 2 Tylenol.

They get a confused look on their face: "but you are supposed to be the natural Guru"!

If you are in accute pain, Western Medicine works the best period.
However if you have recurrent pain like migraines you need to look at the cause.

Sorry Alex, but unless you have a Tumor Western Medicine has nothing but drugs to offer to mask the pain and make you addictive.
Again I see it in the hospital every day.
Getting these pople of the drugs is not easy.

My wife had Migraines for years. 2-3 times a week.
Believe me I'm a nurse and don't take this lightly.
We did all the cat scans, MRIs, X-rays, lab tests etc.
Drugs that made my wife very sick were the answer.

After only 10 treatments of Accupuncture and herbal treatments from a Chinese Doctor trained in China the Migrains are gone.
End of story.
That is 10 years ago!

If you have a large tumor have surgery, chemo and or radiation.
However herbs can greatly reduce the side effects of these very harmful treatments.

In other words: each has strength and weaknesses.
If you are in an acute state of pain or any other symptoms; Western medicine does the trick everey time.

However, if you have some chronic disease Western Medicine does NOT have a cure.
Taking Insulin for the rest of your life or heart medicine for the rest of your life is NOT a cure.
Yes it is a proven treatment but hardly a cure.
Cure means it's GONE!
Do I claim that herbs can cure anything? NO!

And who cares whether it's placebo or anything else as long as you feel better.
What are you so afraid off?
I'm originally from Germany and we used placebo VERY effectifly in the hospital all the time.
Why don't we do this in America? Not because they don't work, but because of childish Lawsuits everywhere.
50% of my day at the hospital I do things in case we get suit, not because it is to the benefit of the patient.
I think that this is insane.

I grew up in Europe with both herbal and western medicine from our doctor.
Europe and other countries have done their own studies and have come often to different conclusions than America as you can see in post regarding Ginseng.
There is a reason for that; but people are blinded and brainwashed enough not to look any further!

Sorry to tell you this, but Americans are the sickest (and most overwheight) nation in the world with all it's wonderful treatments and drugs.
That's a fact!
(I'm not talking third world countries where there is no food or water)
Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

There are a lot of diseases that don't exist in other countries. Why? Beacause people take better care of themselves: through diet, exercise, herbs and whatever else there is.

As Mike already correctly put it: prevention is the cure, which can be done easily with herbs and other natural ways.
Whether you believe it or not doesn't really matter, beacause there are a lot of other countries in the world that have proven that.
I get my info from various sorces, not just one. Speaking more than one language helps.
And I'm not easily convinced either.
After all I'm still a nurse trained in Western Medicine.

Eric

BTW,

I totally agree that there are quite a few people out there that want to make a quick buck by selling you unnecasary stuff.
And I wasn't talking about that.

The original question was: what do you think about Holistic (Alternative) Medicine and not what do you think about people that sell you supplements you don't need.

I think we need to seperate the two.

Only beacause there are some horrible musicians out there, doesn't mean that music in itself is horrible.
We know that; don't we....

Eric