I've noticed over the past couple of months that SO many people have been complaining that the sounds on recent and past keyboards aren't up to their own personal standards. Here's my take on this. What must not be forgotten is that these are DIGITAL instruments.. You will never get a digital instrument to perform and sound as good as the real thing. Understand that our keyboards lack the most essential part of the piano and that's a SOUNDBOARD. Also keey in mind that multi-range sampling can result in very slight differences in tone quality, and volume between the ranges. The problem is when playing 2 notes that lie on either side of the point where there is a change from one range to another. This is unavoidable because of the digital sampling process. Many of today's and yesterday's top keyboards have really good sounds. We all have our own personal taste when it comes to sound quality. We each hear sounds differently.... I've talked to some people that prefer the sounds of the Casio WK series to the Yamaha PSR series. Again it's all in personal taste.

I agree that music and sound synthesis is a very subjective matter but with memory prices plummeting so quickly why do they skip on sample ROM chips?I mean for instance,the PSR740 has 250 odd main sounds stuffed into 12MB of wave ROM.On my PC I have a bass sound that occupies 12MB on its' own and believe me there is a huge difference.I currently use 50 sounds that take up 140MB(16bit at 48KHZ,no looping) and the quality is exceptional
but I have yet to hear any keyboard with this quality!I would prefer a keyboard have say one good acoustic instead of maybe 12 with the available memory dedicated to that sample only,thus giving a more realistic timbre/colouration!In the real world I have no use for 700 odd XG sounds.Give me drums,bass,piano,sax and guitar compressed into
a reasonable sized ROM and I would say most people would be happy!Forget the rest unless thats' your thing.

best regards...jock

Hello Squeak,

I think where our particular type of instruments are concerned there will always be this 'debate'. In my opinion we buy our instruments with the expectation that they will emulate the sounds we require to the best possible standard. The very fact that we will spend the price of a small island to own the top boards should entitle us to that expectation at least, otherwise why bother?

If a company (any of them) sell's it's boards by advertising the quality of their sounds (and most of them do) then if I part with my dosh I expect that quality to be there. I don't think is at all unreasonable on my part?

If we as consumers were just willing to accept that to get the best of one sound you have to buy brand a and to get the best of another you buy brand b then that is what we will get from the manufacturers ad infenitum. Critisism can be constructive and I don't believe anything was ever achieved by meekly accepting limitations.

If we all sit back and accept that sometimes you press trumpet only to get a sound akin to next doors cat when it finds the pepper on your lawn then we had better all brush up, learn the hundred or so instruments on a keyboard and haul em all to the next gig!

I agree that personal taste has a lot to do with it but we all have a right to expect the best possible for our buck! (Or pound in my case )
ttfn
Tony



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" Music is the only one of the arts that cannot be prostituted to a base use." (Elbert Hubbard).
"Elbert Hubbard and I have never met. He is not familiar with my work." (Tony W.)

Tony,
I agree with you on this. I think that keyboard makers publish too much hype about their sound quality. Let's face it.. These keyboards are expensive. I don't care how much a person makes because any keyboard that costs $1000.00 and up should have good sound quality. I also agree that critisism can be very constructive, and that we should not accept these limitations, but there is only so much that today's technology can do with sampling. Even the top dog synths that cost over 2 grand have their flaws with sound quality. I also see jocks point. Why don't they give more ROM to sounds? The most impressive I've seen recently in regards to ROM is the new Yamaha Motif.. This things includes sounds from the S80,EX5, and the PSR9000. It's quite an impressive machine. I think Yammie hit the head on the nail with this synth.... It seems to meet most if not all of the things we musicians want in a synth..

Squeak

Hi all,
the problem with sound quality is that you cannot find the best sounds all in one machine, so if you want the best acoustic piano you have to buy a dedicated digital piano, like Yamaha or Roland, then if you want the best Rhodes you need a Roland XV or a Yamaha or a Korg (matter of taste), then for the best strings again a Roland or a Korg, then...
So I agree with Squeak that when a new synth like the Motif comes out with such impressive specs (80 Mb of ROM, am I right?) you start to hope that maybe, finally, you will be able to have all (or "almost" all) in one package.
By the way, did anyone have a chance to play the Motif? And in this case, what is his opinion on the overall sound quality and single sound categories?
Thanks
Andrea

Let's not loose sight of the "big picture" here! Most of today's digital keyboards make VERY good sounds. Some make EXCEPTIONAL sounds. If you are very fussy about particulars - there are ways to interface different pieces of gear together to get a "custom" sound that suits you.
I don't expect an "all in one" unit to be superb on all levels. That's not gonna happen, but for working players, like me - the new digital arrangers, and synths offer a portable, versitile way to take my muis to the people that want to pay for it. No one ever says..."Do you have a darker trumpet sound" ??????? The sounds are very acceptable in almost all areas, and absoulutly stellar in some.

Well, like I was saying, did anyone have a chance to hear the Motif? George Kaye wrote (to the General Forum) that he just got one, so I think they are available for sale already.

just go to www.yamaha.co.uk then check out the demo online not very good if comparing to Triton sounds are....well no comaprison.

Thank you for the info, Arbaz.

Arbaz and Dreamer,
I know this is an arranger forum but I'd like to give my impression of the Triton vs Motif sounds..............
Korg sounds have always sounded "korg" and Yamaha sounds have always sounded "Yamaha". What I mean by this is that although models change from year to year, the basic architecture of the engines don't seem to change too much, so you can change functions and buttons and tha ability to sample, etc. but the way in which the company's make their sounds don't change too much. I also find that many samples, names of sounds, etc. don't change too much either because the same sound designers often work on each new generation machine.
Now, here's what I like about the motife. With 85 MB ( in 16 bit mode), actually 48 MB in reality, which is still double the S80 and S30, Yamaha has done a great job with the sounds. The Piano's are not changed much, but the Solo instruments like violin, Viola, Cello, Nylon and Steel Guitars have been greatly imroved. There are now "sweet" sounds right out of the 9000 Pro including the sweet flute which is great.
In comparing the Trition with the Motif sound wise I think the Yamaha Grand Piano is much better. Also the Electric Pianos and the new Organs on the Yamaha are in my opinion superior.
What I have always thought was that because Korg Programers really show off the combi mode which allows for 8 voices to be used at once, this is where the Korg sometimes wins to listeners ears. Yamaha uses up to 4 voices per performance(combi) and although these performances are great, some players will still like the lushness of the Triton sounds better. I ask you to really find a store that has both and listen closely to the individual voices on both. I still think the Yamaha wins in realism of each voice.
Here's where the Yamaha is amazing. "Integrated Sampling". You can first record your drum track, bass track, piano track, strings, etc. and than hit intergrated sampling, pick any unused track you want, plug in a mic or guitar, hit record and while listening to your song recorded as a song file, you are recording your audio (analog) sound source right along with the song in perfect timing and pitch. Now, after recording, on playback, you can change the tempo anytime or anywhere and your singing or playing is perfectly synced. You can't do this with the Triton sampler. The Motif's come stock with 4 MB but can be expanded to 64MB by standard 72 pin simms. You can record 6 min. 20. sec. in stereo at 44.1K when using 64 MB. The other thing that is great is that using the smart media boards up to 128 MB, you can store all of your song data in about 5 seconds including all the samples. Compared to other Yamaha Samplers this is a welcome change. The older products took forever to save and load wav files.
Yamaha has also given you as standard equipment a SCSI port for conecting drives, a USB port for connecting midi and digital in and out. You can buy a card for adding up to 8 more analog outputs and SPDIF.
Also keep in mind that the price of the three Motifs ( 61 key, 76 key and 88 graded hammer action keyboard) are all $800.00 less than the three comparable Tritons.
I think all of you know that I sell many brands we all talk about and I find strengths and weaknessess in all the products I sell. Sometimes it is hard for me to not show my "passion" for certain products and i try hard to balance all the selling points of similar products. I think that players who love Korg products will still love their Korg keyboards, and Yamaha players will think that the Motif is a great addition to the Yamaha line up and I think many players who have been on the fence about Yamaha not having a really good workstation type keyboard will be thrilled to see, try and buy this new beauty from Yamaha.
Regards,
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California