I went to the Guitar center, and I really liked the Motif ES.. Although its not a full blown arranger, it did have chord recognition and it was rather inspiring playing the guitar sounds, etc etc...

Now, the thing im considering is this,
I already own a Korg I30 arranger, and was thinking about selling it to buy the ES. And if I found that I still need the arranger, I was thinking of using OMB or even getting a QY100 yamaha arranger module.

Then I thought, What if I buy a controller, like the Edirol PCR 80, with the money from selling the i30 and use software arranger plus sound plug ins sounds to do my music. But then I get confused, cause Ive heard that if you use plug ins, there will be a huge latency from the time you hit the key to when it comes out the speakers.

Guys, can you guys give me some ideas. I want to be able to still have the ability to do songs quickly but also have the ability to get more sophisticated like the way the motif ES provides.

Do you guys know which way would be better for me? Please help me out guys.. thanks..

best,
Musikman

Well, if you want to have arranger capabilities for live performance, then the best option is to keep the I30 and buy the Motif ES. You can set up I30 and Motif via midi to play arranger functions in I30 and use some (or all) sounds from the Motif ES. For example, if you like guitars from Motif more than I30 then setup motif to recieve guitar channel from I30 and have best of both worlds.

If live performance is not a priority, then you could switch to soft synth type arrangement, but I always find software synths more cumbersome to use than the hardware stuff. I also like to have an arranger and a workstation to complete my setup.

As far as latency, it really depends on your computer setup and the kind of audio interface you are using. If you have a decent computer with a recent audio interface (something that supports ASIO or WDM) then latencies are pretty low and un-noticeable.

I own a Motif ES 8 that mostly sits unused because I haven't had the time to really learn how to get comfortable with Yamaha's user-hostile OS, if that's even possible. Everything else I own, from arrangers to keyboards and softsynth studios, is easier and more intuitive to make music with... so when I want to make music, I shy away from my Motif. I'm seriously thinking of selling it while it's hot and just keeping what I know will get the job done until my dream controller comes out someday.

Guys, thank you so much for your ideas..You guys rock.

Pro,
I was reading in another post that you made, that you rather use Reason for composing. Does reason have arranger capabilities?

Ok, here is the thing. I have come to the point where I want to be more creative as far as making my songs. I know the arranger give you an idea of what your song will sound like, but the final product should have one's own inspirations..

The thing is that my i30 sounds are getting pretty out dated. So I was thinking, maybe I can get a nice controller, which like the Edirol PCR 80, only goes for like 300 bucks. Ive read really nice reviews for this one and I think although its a bit more expensive, it seems to have what one would need to control cubase with the sliders and buttons, to control a software synth like One man band.

The thing is, if I sell my i30, a guy is willing to buy it from me for 1300 bucks.. I want to make the most of that money and have something that will jump start my creative juices.. Thats something that I noticed that the Motif ES did while I tried it out at Guitar center.

Only thing is, I dont want to spend all that money on a synth if I can go software and still get the same enjoyment and quality..

Here are the specs of my current PC to give you a better idea..

Windows 98se, I have XP, but I currently use 98SE. XP2600+ CPU @333 FSB, 512 MB of PC3200 DDR, Two 120 7200 RPM Hard disks., Cubase VST 32 5.1r1, my soundcard is the Korg Oasys PCI,( which is why I use 98SE and not XP), and lastly, my korg i30..

I dont do any gigging, I mostly do all my recording at home and I want to use my cash to the best possible way..
You see, If I buy something, I have to sell something first. Thats why Im not sure about selling my i30 until im sure.

So I though, if I bought the Controller, that would leave me with a lot of cash to use for other things...

The reason I like the arranger programs or keyboards, is that they help me build the backing sequences rather quickly and one can customize them better or to one's originality afterwards.. I wonder if I make any sense.. but I know you guys understand me cause you guys use arrangers as well..

Thank you guys...

best,

Musikman

Hi Musicman,

i use also the qy 100 of Yamaha at home.
I have tried it for arranger on my keyboard it works also but i dont love some styles.
It's a great instrument for making ideas of arrangements, you can use it everywhere it's compact and you take it with you were you go. The sounds are good to use in a recording mood for taking up some ideas for arrangements or songs.

notlos

wwww.notlos.com

------------------

I own the Tyros AND the Motif and this is a combination that can't be beat (ok maybe a Hammond and a Steinway).

The Motif ES inspires my virtuoso abilities, composition, and the weighted keys are a dream.

The Tyros is a fantastic arranger and the two compliment each other wonderfully.

If I had to pick one? I'd pick the Motif. But it is NOT an arranger and do not make the mistake of considering it an Arranger.

Al

Al,
I remember that before buying the Motif you have been talking a lot about how you had been impressed by the Yamaha P-250 (digital piano); should you come back, do you still that the Motif 88 is a better choice? How would you rate the Motif Grand Pianos vs the P-250's ones?
Have you ever tried to use the Motif as a master keyboard for the Tyros?
Thanks

Keep the i30 and buy the Mofif rack. It's essentially the same as the ES. That gives you new, fresh sounds with tried and true performances you are already used to.

Uncle Dave, my understanding is the Motif rack is the old Motif and not the ES update. It's still a great box, but if the ES is essential, the rack won't do it. Otherwise, I agree with your assessment.

The rack has always been an upgrade over the original MO. It has the expanded polyphony as well.

Hi Musikman,

If you just want to use the MoES at a rather superficial level then it's not too hard to use. If all you want to do is to pick a voice (program in Korg speak) and play it or to pick a voice and apply an arp to it and then play with that, then it is relatively easy to get around the keyboard and get those things done. HOWEVER, if you want to get inside and do some fairly complicated or sophisticated things then hang on to your ass because the OS is convoluted and TOTALLY nonintuitive and you will spend a lot of time at Motifator.com trying to get answers about how to do something, and you may or may not get any answers. One thing is for sure (I've seen it happen) though, and that is if you suggest that maybe perhaps there could possibly be something WRONG with the way the OS is laid out and that MAYBE it could be better done, the Yamaha reps may very well flame you and then ignore you.

I had a MoES for about two weeks and then took it back and got a Tyros (which I love!) because I'm retired and do music for personal enjoyment and I just simply did not feel like fighting with that damn OS! On the other hand, the Tyros, even with it's short comings, which ALL keyboards have, is totally different. It is well laid out and is intuitive to use and easy to get around on. I'm very glad I took the MoES back and got the Tyros.

These are just my personal feelings and your mileage may vary.

Tom

------------------
Bigger is not always better

Sorry, Not hardly essentially the same.

Motif Rack
128 Notes of polyphony
Preset Voices: 896 normal voices (incl. GM bank), 65 drum kits
User Voices : 256 normal voices, 32 drum kits
Stereo OUT, 4 individual OUT, Digital Out (optical and coaxial
USB-MIDI, MIDI IN, OUT, THRU
MSPS plug-in slot x 2
Motif Effects plus: Newly designed Reverb algorithm, 4 Insert Effects and 3 band EQs per Part in Multi Mode

Motif ES

Tone Generator AWM2 (complying with the Modular Synthesis Plug-in System)
Polyphony 128 notes + the polyphony of the Plug-in Board (if installed)
Multi Timbral Capacity 16 parts (internal) + 3 or more Plug-in Board parts (1 for each Single Plug-in Board; 16 for Multi Plug-in Board), Audio Input parts (A/D, AIEB2, mLAN*) * 4 stereo parts
Wave 175MB (when converted to 16- bit linear format), 1859 waveforms
Voices Preset: 768 normal voices + 64 drum kits
GM: 128 normal voices + 1 drum kit
User: 128 x 2 (Bank 1: Original, Bank 2: Picked up from Preset) normal voice + 32 drum kits
Plug-in Preset: PLG150-AN/DX/PF/DR/PC: 64, PLG150-VL: 192
Plug-in User: 64 for each Plug-in slot
Plug-in Voices Preset for the PLG150-AN/DX/PF/DR/PC: 64
Preset for the PLG150-VL: 192
User: 64 for each Plug-in slot
Performances 128 User (up to 4 parts)
Filter 18 types
Effect System Reverb: 20 types
Chorus: 49 types
Insertion: (A,B) x 116 types x 8 blocks
Master Effect: 8 types
Master Equalizer: 5 bands
Part EQ: 3 bands, stereo
Plug-in Insertion: Available when the PLG100-VH has been installed into slot 1
Expandability 3 slots for Modular Synthesis Plug-in Boards
Sampling Block
Samples Up to 1024 Waveforms (Multi Samples)
Up to 128 Key Banks per Waveform
Up to 4096 Key Banks
Sampling Sources Analog input L/R
Stereo output (Resampling)
Digital/Optical (available when the AIEB2 has been installed)
mLAN (available when the mLAN16E has been installed)
A/D Conversion 20 bit, 64 x oversampling
D/A Conversion 24 bit, 128 x oversampling
Sampling Data Bits 16
Sampling Frequencies 44.1kHz, 22.05kHz, 11.025kHz, 5.5125kHz (Stereo/Mono)

Sampling frequencies of 48kHz, 44.1kHz, and 32kHz can be input digitally when the AIEB2 is installed.
Sampling frequencies of 44.1kHz (fixed) can be input digitally when the mLAN16E is installed.

Memory Optionally installed, expandable to 512MB (256MB DIMM x 2 slots)
Sample Lengths Mono: 32 MB, Stereo: 64MB
Sampling Time 44.1kHz: 6 min. 20 sec.
22.05kHz: 12 min. 40 sec.
11.025kHz: 25 min. 20 sec.
5.0125kHz: 55 min. 40 sec.
* Mono/Stereo
Sample Formats Original format
WAV
AIFF
A3000/4000/5000/SU700 format (loadable only)
AKAI S1000/S3000 format (loadable only)
Sequencer Block
Note Capacity Approximately 226,000 notes
Note Resolution 480 ppq (parts per quarter note)
Maximum Polyphony 124 notes
Tracks Pattern Mode: 16 phrase tracks
Pattern Chain Mode: Pattern track, Tempo track, Scene track
Song Mode: 16 sequence tracks (Loop on/off can be set for each track), Tempo track, Scene track
Patterns 64 patterns (x 16 sections)
Measures: 256 maximum
Phrases Preset: 687
User: 256 per pattern
Songs 64 songs
Arpeggio Preset: 1787 types
User: 256 types

* MIDI Sync, MIDI transmit/receive channel, Velocity Limit, and Note Limit can be set.
Sequence Format Original format, SMF format 0, 1 (Format 1 load only


I own both as well, the Tyros and the Motif ES 8. I use the Mo to control the Tyros. I use more Tyros voices then Mo. Tomcat and pro IMO were understating the o/s from hell.

It is a great board but as Tomcat said go in depth and the average user is in for an Excedrin headache. He is also correct in that act like there's a problem with the Mo on the ES forum and you'd better be wearing flame retardant underware.

I suppose the way I would sum up my feelings is the Motif will be long gone from my studio before the Tyros will be.
Terry


------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 03-18-2004).]

Sorry - delayed response - Reason is not an arranger program in the least. But it is one of the most intuitive and fun softsynth studio programs on the market. I use it a lot but I'm an old-school synthesist anyway so Reason works and feels just like my recording studio from the 80's with modern devices and conveniences. I think Reason is a terrific value and highly recommend it - if you're curious there's no "reason" not to try the free trial download:
http://www.propellerheads.se/

and don't forget to download this handy generic freeware ASIO driver if you don't already have an ASIO-compatible soundcard:
http://michael.tippach.bei.t-online.de/asio4all/

The 250 is a great keyboard, but all around the Motif is much better. I love the Motif Piano patches and yes, I use the Tyros via midi. i even trigger left hand Auto-Accomp from the Motif.

Al

Guys, thanks for all your awsome responses..I really appreciate it. You know, I really like the Motif ES for everything, but I started to wonder if it would be better for me to just go ahead and sell my i30 and get the OMB program from Joe Maas.
I was thinking, if I sell my i30 for lets say 1300 bucks, which someone already offered me, then I could get Joes program for 30 bucks and I was thinking about getting an XG chip soundcard to use with OMB. And I was also looking into getting a good controller keyboard like the Edirol PCR-80. Its a 61 key keyboard with 8 faders and a lot of buttons and controllers.. I think this could really work for me.

I will end up saving a lot of money and I can continue to use Windows 98se and my Korg Oasys PCI soundcard.

One of the main reasons, I wanted to get the MOes was because of MLan, but then I would have needed to sell my Oasys, because Mlan doesnt work in XP and Mlan will only work in XP.
Anyways, guys, thanks so much for all your kind advice. I really appreciate having a bunch of music friends that help each other out..

best,
Musikman