Can someone give me a side by side, minus the 76 to 60 keys, and speakers to no speakers.

Thanks

Frank,
Where do I start?????? I had a PA80 for a very short time, and I still have a 9kpro in my studio at home, so I feel qualified to answer with little or no bias.

Sounds:
Yamaha has a much better grand piano sound
Korg has an edge in guitars.(slight)
Most orchestral solo sounds are about even - the Yamaha has two expansion slots for adding new samples and modeled sounds, and the on board sampler is not too shabby. (I'm told) The new Korg o/s is supposed to have some sampling options.

Styles:
Yamaha is more generic and smoother in transition. VERY useable in many song styles. The Korg drums are among the best I've heard, but the programmers were on a caffeine high when they recorded the fill ins and the variations. Too choppy and busy for the real world. Very cool patterns, but Steve Gadd on speed is the drummer. I want Ringo Starr - give me the beat Frank,

Buttons / layout:
Yamaha is SO FAR ahead here. The layout is soooooo easy. The multi pads and one-touch settings are in all the right places. The Korg engineers made this thing look nice, but the buttons are in all the wrong places for most players that use two hands to play the keyboard.

Size / weight / price:
All things considered - the PA80 is easier to tote around, although the Yamaha has a much better, solid keyboard feel. Korg is cheaper, and rightly so - it doesn't do as much, and is not expandable.

Mic / harmonizer:
This is where the Yamaha shines. In fact ALL the effects on the 9k are superb. The harmonizer works excellent from the chord section of the keyboard, or direct from midi files. the Korg harmonizer is very light on features, but the tone is good. There are no presets, no special edits available - the Yamaha blows it out of the vocal water here.
These two are really not a fair comparison - the 9k is a class above the PA80 in almost all areas. A better comparison is the PSR2k, which is a better value in most ways because of price and features. If you are a Triton fan, the PA80 will sound good to you, but if you are an avid fan of arranger functions, and need real time control over important features in a "live" setting ...... the Yamaha is the better choice.

Thanks Uncle Dave, you so far have not steered me wrong. There is a PA-80 for sale!!!

I have the utmost respect for Dave, always have. Having said that, Frank, My only advice is .." try the thing out first before you go sell the PA80 for it, no matter who is telling you ". I haven't played the 9000 pro, so I am not qualified to comment on its sounds, but unless they are a major improvement from the 9000, for me the 9000 pro wouldn't compare to the PA80. Maybe there are those who will not agree when they read this, but again it's all in what someone wants to use the board for. I know that when I listen to recordings I have made on the PA80 vs the ones I made on the 9000 or 2000, well, the PA80's just sound more realistic and pro overall. I cannot argue in favor of the PA80 if your primary use would be live playing, with an emphasis more on vocals rather than musical and you will be using the arranger functions to emulate "standards". No doubt, the Yamaha styles, while simpler, will work for a wider variety of popular songs. The 9000 and 2000 are easier to work with "out of the box". Where the PA80 shines is if you want more of a typical workstation and are willing to work a bit on the styles. ( Yes with a bit of work some of those "objectionable fills " can be altered even without changing notes in many cases to make a better fit ). For drum sounds, no comparison. Guitars? Unless the Pro has improved vastly over it's predecessors, again for electric solo guitars, no comparison. Maybe in a mix I can
live with the Yamaha electric sounds, but never on a solo. I'll add the Motif to that comment as well.

As far as the PA80 being comparable to the 2000?. I don't think so. I have both boards sitting less than 5 feet from me right now. The 2000 has its place here, and is nice and easy to use for my duet gigs with a singer. It does have excellent features as compared to the PA80 as well..minus a few. For anything that is being recorded, yes there are even a few sounds I actually prefer over the PA80, but not very many.

AJ

thanks for you input, but the korg just seems very backwards when it comes to the operating system, I've had alot of ideas that got lost because I couldn't figure out what to do

I can't argue with that logic. It did take me quite a bit longer to figure out the board than anything from the Yamaha series that I have played or owned. Now that I have figured it out, it isn't difficult at all for me to use though. I know for me, I would miss the drums, guitars, and synth / bass sounds though on the Korg, but then again, my primary concern is neither ease of use or the arranger functions. For quick setup and "plug and play" though, I sometimes do prefer the 2000.

AJ

PEOPEL!!!! the arranger keyboards should not be compared only on the basis of how they sound.
If you want the best sound, then you shouldn't even consider an arranger keyboard or a synth. Get a sampler, AKAI or EMU.

Arranger keyboards have lot of other criterias to be considered.
PA-80 should be compared to PSR-9000, not the 9000Pro.

PA-80 wins overall on the raw sounds, but it loses to PSR-9000 on flexibility of mixing sound in an arrangement (Effects, EQ etc...)

Vocal harmonizer wins in PSR-9000

Ease and speed of use .. PSR-9000 wins. In a live situation, you don't want to mess with menus...

Two more cents worth - I reeeeeealy wanted to love the PA80. I have been a Korg user, and I'm very used to the way they work, sound, feel, etc..... The PA80, I believe, is STILL a work in progress. Maybe they took the best workstation features from the Triton line and added some scaled down arranger stuff, but they didn't do ALL their homework. The button layout, menu items, and general ergonomics are not up to par with the current status of what solo players need.
I gave mine a good test drive, and I realized early on, that there were too many "missing pieces" to the puzzle. I think the drums sound great, as do most of the staple sounds, but the "ease of use" factor is way off target. Anyone that has played an earlier I series, or PSR series, or any Roland series would find it very uncomfortable, and unnecessary to learn a new technique for controlling basic functions in a "real time" setting.

Two examples:

Try to change the tone of the manual bass part. You need to select the manual button first, then call up the bass tone section, then DEselect the manual button, and REselect it before the change takes place. What egghead designed THAT?

Next - try to change the volume of the arranger bass part during playback, by just a Teeeeny bit at a time. You can't do it. You need to go into the mixer menu, and then the volume will step up or down in small increments - too much time - too many button pushes - to much lost "fingers on the keys" time. Solo entertainers need 3 pairs of arms to do what we need to as it is - we need the button pushes to be kept to a minimum. The PA80 does not play well in a live, solo situation. It needs lots of work on the o/s before it can be a contender, and that I why I rated the PSR2k ahead of the Korg.

Potential buyers of arranger keyboards need lots of flexibility, and the Korg is way too "button intensive" to be an easy piece to find comfort with.
Maybe a few more o/s updates can bring it up to the level that they are charging you for, but at his time - the PA80 is a much better workstation, than it is an arranger.
Hmmmmmm, wasn't the Triton ALWAYS a pretty good workstation? I think Korg pulled a fast one on us, but I for one, wasn't fooled.

BTW - My friend just traded a mint I30 - anyone need one? I'll post the details in the "for sale" section as soon as I find out if it has a HD or not.

Uncle Dave,
I am intrested in the i30 please let me know at drgulafshan@hotmail.com.

Sorry, Shakil, I disagree with you. No need to scream "people" at me either. At my age, level of play as a keyboardist, and experience with music and life in general, cut me a little more slack than that ok? Maybe you don't think that sounds are a top priority on an arranger but that is your opinion, not my reality. Others may agree or not, and that is perfectly OK, but either way, just because you say it, doesn't make it so for me. Unfortunately, I can't help but sometimes feel a bit of the same bias here toward arranger users who don't use the boards in a real time, live setting, as I do from so called "pro" workstation users who want to believe that boards like the PA80 and PSR, VA, Solton series ( etc etc ) are like Casio toys of the 80s.. There are others out here using arrangers that don't use them strictly as a tool for entertaining in a solo act. I have ABSOLUTELY no argument with any of you guys / gals who use them that way either, but there are also those of us who may have different priorities. I tend to address needs in an arranger as a player who does not primarily entertain live, and I have made that clear often enough here from day one. I don't WANT to drag a sampler or rack full of equipment with me when I'm composing or just even jamming away from home or in a room at home other than in my home studio...that's the whole point for me.., but I still want good sounds all the time, so yes that IS my primary concern with an arranger. Arranger functions are also important to me too, but not for the same reasons or with the same priorities as they are for a person who buys a board mainly for use in a live act.

I do play out from time to time though, so I do my homework before I go. I could definitely use the PA80 as my primary solo / duet act board if necessary. My registrations are set in advance in any board I use for what I'm going to do. The rest is simply playing with both hands on the keyboard and entertaining. I can ( and have ) fixed the styles to suit my needs and set up registrations in advance if I want to use the board in a live setting, it doesn't take much for me, but again as I've said in previous threads, yes... for quick out of the box use in a live setting with less tweaking and easier control of functions, I prefer my PSR2000. But it does not compare with nor will it ever replace my PA80.

Uncle Dave, your comment about the PA80 being a workstation echoes what I have thought and said about the PA80 all along. I have always thought of it as a workstation that happens to have arranger functions and speakers, minus true expansion features, ( That is where i use my Sampling gear anyway ). I guess for this reason, I don't feel as if Korg pulled a fast one on me at all. The PA80 has just what I've always wanted in a board. My only real argument with Korg is that when it was released originally, it was very incomplete and lacking somewhat in features, but this is not the case ( at least for my needs ) anymore.

AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 12-07-2001).]

AJ,
That first o/s release was such a dissapointment, wasn't it? How's the new one?

Uncle Dave,

I couldn't agree more. The last OS release before 2.0 was soooooo disappointing that I nearly brought the board back within a couple of days, but less than a week after I bought it, OS2 came out and offered some improvement. With the original OS versions, it was not even possible to alter a note in a style. OS3 has brought sampling, but not in the true sense. It allows the triggering of single wave files in a non linear mode. It is great for drum / percussion pieces but not for adding instrument voices that can be played acros the scale. I think the Modern Dance / Techno oriented players will find it very useful though.

It also now allows import of Triton (.pcg) programs, and they sound wonderful on the PA80 overall. Great for acquiring some new user voices ( particularly synth ) without having to do all the laborious work of editing patches.

It now has step sequencing for songs and patterns with full event editing at 384 ppq. Not great resloution but not that bad. The sequencer itself is very easy to use in the edit mode though once you get to the right screen.

The multipads can now control functions other than inserting sounds or short sequences. They can be set up to control 35 different typical pedal functions, style up, style down, track mutes, etc.

There are quite a few other minor changes that don't seem to make much difference to me at this point, and really don't make the board any easier or more difficult to operate in real time.

Now ( finally, after months ) that I understand the OS pretty well, I'm very happy overall, but the one thing I still don't like is the 2 fills per style. I, like many others was disappointed because that hasn't changed. Korg did pull a fast one there I think..lol. The new features they talked about surely fooled me into thinking I was going to get 4 fills in the new OS. I don't think all of the fills are that bad, but the biggest drawback in my opinion is that on some styles, the 2 fills generally seem to only match 2 of the variations out of 4.

I guess if I were just comparing arranger features, and not thinking in terms of sounds and editing capabilities, I think the 2000 stacks up well and maybe in a few areas even better than the PA80 though. The 740, 2000, and 9000 were much easier for me to figure out and easier to navigate certain features in real time, although I do miss havings slider on the 2000 like the ones on the PA80 that can control the volumes of arragement and program ( main / layer) voices seperately. ( I assigned the extra slider to program / performance volume control )

I'm guessing here Dave, that for your uses, you made a wise choice by exchanging the PA80 for a 9000. This is not the best board for anyone who needs to use it solo in a live setting within a few days or maybe even weeks after they buy it. ( maybe ever? ) Navigating the OS is uncomfortable to a large extent for me in that respect. For me though, I do so much electric blues and guitar oriented jazz stuff, mainly at the home studio these days. I wish my guitar playing skills were up to the task for some some of the stuff I want to do, but they just aren't always good enough. I haven't played any other boards at all outside of the Triton / PA series that allow me to mimic and emulate guitars the way I like to. Tossing sounds aside for a minute, part of that also comes from the key feel and having a joystick too..I guess it might seem like a minor thing to some, but the joystick is a much better feel for me than a pitch wheel and I can do mod effects and bend notes all in one motion. I almost feel like I'm bending a guitar string when I use it. The PA 80 key feel / action also works well for me. I would not be as happy with this board or the key feel if I wanted to use or play piano sounds a lot, but for emulating many other lead instruments, I can't use real piano action to save my life.

AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 12-07-2001).]