Can someone give me a side by side, minus the 76 to 60 keys, and speakers to no speakers.

Thanks

Frank,
Where do I start?????? I had a PA80 for a very short time, and I still have a 9kpro in my studio at home, so I feel qualified to answer with little or no bias.

Sounds:
Yamaha has a much better grand piano sound
Korg has an edge in guitars.(slight)
Most orchestral solo sounds are about even - the Yamaha has two expansion slots for adding new samples and modeled sounds, and the on board sampler is not too shabby. (I'm told) The new Korg o/s is supposed to have some sampling options.

Styles:
Yamaha is more generic and smoother in transition. VERY useable in many song styles. The Korg drums are among the best I've heard, but the programmers were on a caffeine high when they recorded the fill ins and the variations. Too choppy and busy for the real world. Very cool patterns, but Steve Gadd on speed is the drummer. I want Ringo Starr - give me the beat Frank,

Buttons / layout:
Yamaha is SO FAR ahead here. The layout is soooooo easy. The multi pads and one-touch settings are in all the right places. The Korg engineers made this thing look nice, but the buttons are in all the wrong places for most players that use two hands to play the keyboard.

Size / weight / price:
All things considered - the PA80 is easier to tote around, although the Yamaha has a much better, solid keyboard feel. Korg is cheaper, and rightly so - it doesn't do as much, and is not expandable.

Mic / harmonizer:
This is where the Yamaha shines. In fact ALL the effects on the 9k are superb. The harmonizer works excellent from the chord section of the keyboard, or direct from midi files. the Korg harmonizer is very light on features, but the tone is good. There are no presets, no special edits available - the Yamaha blows it out of the vocal water here.
These two are really not a fair comparison - the 9k is a class above the PA80 in almost all areas. A better comparison is the PSR2k, which is a better value in most ways because of price and features. If you are a Triton fan, the PA80 will sound good to you, but if you are an avid fan of arranger functions, and need real time control over important features in a "live" setting ...... the Yamaha is the better choice.

Thanks Uncle Dave, you so far have not steered me wrong. There is a PA-80 for sale!!!

I have the utmost respect for Dave, always have. Having said that, Frank, My only advice is .." try the thing out first before you go sell the PA80 for it, no matter who is telling you ". I haven't played the 9000 pro, so I am not qualified to comment on its sounds, but unless they are a major improvement from the 9000, for me the 9000 pro wouldn't compare to the PA80. Maybe there are those who will not agree when they read this, but again it's all in what someone wants to use the board for. I know that when I listen to recordings I have made on the PA80 vs the ones I made on the 9000 or 2000, well, the PA80's just sound more realistic and pro overall. I cannot argue in favor of the PA80 if your primary use would be live playing, with an emphasis more on vocals rather than musical and you will be using the arranger functions to emulate "standards". No doubt, the Yamaha styles, while simpler, will work for a wider variety of popular songs. The 9000 and 2000 are easier to work with "out of the box". Where the PA80 shines is if you want more of a typical workstation and are willing to work a bit on the styles. ( Yes with a bit of work some of those "objectionable fills " can be altered even without changing notes in many cases to make a better fit ). For drum sounds, no comparison. Guitars? Unless the Pro has improved vastly over it's predecessors, again for electric solo guitars, no comparison. Maybe in a mix I can
live with the Yamaha electric sounds, but never on a solo. I'll add the Motif to that comment as well.

As far as the PA80 being comparable to the 2000?. I don't think so. I have both boards sitting less than 5 feet from me right now. The 2000 has its place here, and is nice and easy to use for my duet gigs with a singer. It does have excellent features as compared to the PA80 as well..minus a few. For anything that is being recorded, yes there are even a few sounds I actually prefer over the PA80, but not very many.

AJ

thanks for you input, but the korg just seems very backwards when it comes to the operating system, I've had alot of ideas that got lost because I couldn't figure out what to do

I can't argue with that logic. It did take me quite a bit longer to figure out the board than anything from the Yamaha series that I have played or owned. Now that I have figured it out, it isn't difficult at all for me to use though. I know for me, I would miss the drums, guitars, and synth / bass sounds though on the Korg, but then again, my primary concern is neither ease of use or the arranger functions. For quick setup and "plug and play" though, I sometimes do prefer the 2000.

AJ

PEOPEL!!!! the arranger keyboards should not be compared only on the basis of how they sound.
If you want the best sound, then you shouldn't even consider an arranger keyboard or a synth. Get a sampler, AKAI or EMU.

Arranger keyboards have lot of other criterias to be considered.
PA-80 should be compared to PSR-9000, not the 9000Pro.

PA-80 wins overall on the raw sounds, but it loses to PSR-9000 on flexibility of mixing sound in an arrangement (Effects, EQ etc...)

Vocal harmonizer wins in PSR-9000

Ease and speed of use .. PSR-9000 wins. In a live situation, you don't want to mess with menus...

Two more cents worth - I reeeeeealy wanted to love the PA80. I have been a Korg user, and I'm very used to the way they work, sound, feel, etc..... The PA80, I believe, is STILL a work in progress. Maybe they took the best workstation features from the Triton line and added some scaled down arranger stuff, but they didn't do ALL their homework. The button layout, menu items, and general ergonomics are not up to par with the current status of what solo players need.
I gave mine a good test drive, and I realized early on, that there were too many "missing pieces" to the puzzle. I think the drums sound great, as do most of the staple sounds, but the "ease of use" factor is way off target. Anyone that has played an earlier I series, or PSR series, or any Roland series would find it very uncomfortable, and unnecessary to learn a new technique for controlling basic functions in a "real time" setting.

Two examples:

Try to change the tone of the manual bass part. You need to select the manual button first, then call up the bass tone section, then DEselect the manual button, and REselect it before the change takes place. What egghead designed THAT?

Next - try to change the volume of the arranger bass part during playback, by just a Teeeeny bit at a time. You can't do it. You need to go into the mixer menu, and then the volume will step up or down in small increments - too much time - too many button pushes - to much lost "fingers on the keys" time. Solo entertainers need 3 pairs of arms to do what we need to as it is - we need the button pushes to be kept to a minimum. The PA80 does not play well in a live, solo situation. It needs lots of work on the o/s before it can be a contender, and that I why I rated the PSR2k ahead of the Korg.

Potential buyers of arranger keyboards need lots of flexibility, and the Korg is way too "button intensive" to be an easy piece to find comfort with.
Maybe a few more o/s updates can bring it up to the level that they are charging you for, but at his time - the PA80 is a much better workstation, than it is an arranger.
Hmmmmmm, wasn't the Triton ALWAYS a pretty good workstation? I think Korg pulled a fast one on us, but I for one, wasn't fooled.

BTW - My friend just traded a mint I30 - anyone need one? I'll post the details in the "for sale" section as soon as I find out if it has a HD or not.

Uncle Dave,
I am intrested in the i30 please let me know at drgulafshan@hotmail.com.

Sorry, Shakil, I disagree with you. No need to scream "people" at me either. At my age, level of play as a keyboardist, and experience with music and life in general, cut me a little more slack than that ok? Maybe you don't think that sounds are a top priority on an arranger but that is your opinion, not my reality. Others may agree or not, and that is perfectly OK, but either way, just because you say it, doesn't make it so for me. Unfortunately, I can't help but sometimes feel a bit of the same bias here toward arranger users who don't use the boards in a real time, live setting, as I do from so called "pro" workstation users who want to believe that boards like the PA80 and PSR, VA, Solton series ( etc etc ) are like Casio toys of the 80s.. There are others out here using arrangers that don't use them strictly as a tool for entertaining in a solo act. I have ABSOLUTELY no argument with any of you guys / gals who use them that way either, but there are also those of us who may have different priorities. I tend to address needs in an arranger as a player who does not primarily entertain live, and I have made that clear often enough here from day one. I don't WANT to drag a sampler or rack full of equipment with me when I'm composing or just even jamming away from home or in a room at home other than in my home studio...that's the whole point for me.., but I still want good sounds all the time, so yes that IS my primary concern with an arranger. Arranger functions are also important to me too, but not for the same reasons or with the same priorities as they are for a person who buys a board mainly for use in a live act.

I do play out from time to time though, so I do my homework before I go. I could definitely use the PA80 as my primary solo / duet act board if necessary. My registrations are set in advance in any board I use for what I'm going to do. The rest is simply playing with both hands on the keyboard and entertaining. I can ( and have ) fixed the styles to suit my needs and set up registrations in advance if I want to use the board in a live setting, it doesn't take much for me, but again as I've said in previous threads, yes... for quick out of the box use in a live setting with less tweaking and easier control of functions, I prefer my PSR2000. But it does not compare with nor will it ever replace my PA80.

Uncle Dave, your comment about the PA80 being a workstation echoes what I have thought and said about the PA80 all along. I have always thought of it as a workstation that happens to have arranger functions and speakers, minus true expansion features, ( That is where i use my Sampling gear anyway ). I guess for this reason, I don't feel as if Korg pulled a fast one on me at all. The PA80 has just what I've always wanted in a board. My only real argument with Korg is that when it was released originally, it was very incomplete and lacking somewhat in features, but this is not the case ( at least for my needs ) anymore.

AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 12-07-2001).]