Based on the owner's manual for the Tyros, I've found some good and BAD things so far:

Good: Song Auto Revoicing changes XG midi files to the better Tyros sounds - great idea. Master Multi-band compression has great potential, HD support up to 137 GB, and Song Position Markers (can be saved?) are nice features.

BAD: Here is comes... first I don't care for the ugly external screw-on music stand and speakers mounts that are certainly going to be problem when it's time to put the Tyros in a carry case. Then I got to Page 80: the Mega Voice "Catch-22" buried in the center of the manual: it says you can't select or play the new MegaVoices from the keyboard, but you can produce songs and styles using them??? If this is possible from the Tyros internal sequencer or style creator, the manual doesn't say. Maybe they mean you can do this from a software sequencer (I could tell more about this if Yamaha provided a MIDI implementation chart, which apparently is in a separate owners manual called the Data List). So what sequencer program does Yamaha recommend with this new next-generation keyboard... a new Tyros OPT panel with for use with Cakewalk Sonar? Nope. The new Yamaha SQ01 sequencer software? Nope. The answer is on Page 58: the only computer sequencer package mentioned anywhere in this manual is Yamaha's defunct XGWorks. Somebody want to guess how long it'll take Yamaha to release a Tyros voice definition file for a sequencer program that they have discontinued? This is bound to get ugly...

Pro,
The data manual with midi implementation is available on the German site mentioned in one of the other Tyros threads here.

According to George Kaye, who I spoke with yesterday....unless I misunderstood, he said you can play the mega voices by themselves.
Terry

Pro,
Very interesting points there... Not being able to select the mega voices to play on the keyboard seems pointless... Why only use them in sequences and styles. If the voices are as good as they say, then one should be able to choose these voices to solo with, and play directly from the keyboard...

Regarding your points on the Tyros, first I would expect the speakers are more likely to be used for home entertainment than in a professional gig - certainly I would expect more ample amplification would be needed, so I don't think the fact they are screwed on is going to affect many gigging musicians.
The Mega Voices are not intended to be played as ordinary sounds on the keyboard because of the way they are mapped (a bit like those fret noise and metronome stick xg effects that you can never find as they are outside the normal octave ranges). They are primarily for the construction of sophisticated backing arrangements and rhythm sections, being limited to guitar and bass instruments. My guess is that yamaha have plans to release a rhythmn creation software program in the future which will enable easy programming of guitar strumming and other licks using these "mega" voices. The voices have the bank numbers and program no's listed in the manual so I guess with the appropriate midi messages they can be found and played on the Tyros. I would think though that most of the key samples in these sounds are used in the new Cool! and Live! bass and guitar sounds, so I dont think its the end of the world that we cant play them as ordinary voices.
I think its more annoying that Yamaha didnt add a numeric keypad like the old psr740 or a ps/2 socket for connecting an external keyboard, especially as you need to enter filenames, folders and have the option to enter voice numbers!

Simon


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Simon G.K. Williams
simon@svpworld.com
Creative Music & Multimedia
http://www.svpworld.com
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What you cannot do is play the mega voices to the same standard and achieve the same effects as those in the backing styles without sophisticated sequencing, as has been explained. When you actually listen to the tyros you will hear what I mean.

What the manual actually says is "they are not intended to be played alone"....not that they can't be played alone. I think as tech says, one will not acheive the exact same results if done. I do not think this is all that uncommon especially on arrangers, that some voices sound different in arrangements then they do solo.

Also....I don't at all think it was "buried" in the manual as if trying to hide it. It was right there first graph under mega voices.
Terry

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 09-12-2002).]

I explained in a post yesterday where the Mega voices are located in the Guitar bank of sounds and that they can be played if you wish to but that for most players it would be very difficult because of all the layers of different guitar type effects being used to make them sound so realistic. I also explained how Yamaha used the samples from these mega voices on other sounds which are intended for you to play from the keyboard.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Simon: you're right of course about the use of external speakers with the Tyros, and the speakers stand mounts don't seem to protrude very much, but the music stand mounts do and that is something that could be used by pros (except for the fact that the music stand itself is so high that it would block the view of the performer from the audience unless he has his back to them!). A minor caveat.

I understand the velocity-switching concept of the MegaVoices, which probably is much like the 9000's Live! Nylon guitar which has the harmonic-only sound of the strings when the note is struck hard; and that if the sound is velocity-switched eight or more times rather than just one then the playability of that sound is questionable without using a sequencer. But can this voice used/programmed with the Tyros' internal sequencer? Not if you can't select the MegaVoices from the keyboard as the manual implies. So what sequencer would you use? There's the rub: only XGWorks has been mentioned by name... so how will a new Tyros buyer feel when they realize that Yamaha has recommended a sequencer program that was discontinued many months before the first Tyros even hit the shelf? And even if you could obtain XGWorks, I'd bet that Yamaha won't ever release an instrument definition file for the Tyros (to my knowledge, they never did for the 9000Pro). So assuming that Yamaha will release a rhythm creation software program is a huge leap of faith unless you have inside knowledge of such already.

No, it's not the end of the world... in fact, it's pretty much predictable that Yamaha would give you ALMOST but not quite everything you need to get the most out of their newest instruments. You're also right about the absence of a PS/2 port but possibly Yamaha could release a patch to allow a USB keyboard to be plugged in?

Hey, no screen saver?

George: thanks, that helped clarify the issue, and your reply came in while I was writing mine. You can access the individual samples of the MegaVoices from the keyboard... cool. Guess you can sequence with them also. Now about that mention of using XGworks with the Tyros...

achieving the effect of the mega voices in tyros backing styles needed computer micro editing of the style at each note, as was explained to me by the designer.

HEY! I found it! A tiny footnote on Page 3 of the Tools for Tyros manual says that the Voice Editor and the File Utility programs are stand-alone applications OR OPT applications. That means you can open these programs from within a sequencer like Cakewalk Sonar 2.0. I assume that would also mean that the Tyros voice editor has or is also a Cakewalk instrument definition file. That's news.

Now how hard would it have been for Yamaha to just say that their software is compatible with popular sequencer programs like Sonar 2.0 in the Tyros owner's manual?

Now I think I understand what's the deal with Tyros...

Let me get this straight, you are talking about Mega voices which are MOSTLY guitar voices intended to be part of the AUTO-accompaniment... Most likely they will be emulating the sound of strumming guitar within a style. So they are not intended as SOLO instruments but as backing instruments for STYLES!!! and probably for sequenced songs when you use the styles to make the songs...

That is not a new concept. That concept is in the WK8 already. That explains why GEM excels over Yamaha with styles that have strumming guitar.... this is because of these kind of sounds...

So basically, Tyros is Yamaha attempt to further improve their styles by borrowing a concept from GEM.

Is that good news or bad news?

Good news: Styles with strumming guitars are spectacular and wonderful. This is of course if they apply it to many styles, especially ballad, 8-beat, 16-beat, and others..

Bad news: That is possibly the only real improvement to the keyboard in terms of styles and sounds... BUT... BUT...

That is good/bad news to GEM:

Good news: Your concept about strumming guitars was sound. In fact, yamaha made new keyboard just to copy that concept.

Bad news: If Tyros got this right, it stole the last thing that GEM could boast about their styles

Again, That is an opinion BASED on simply reading what is written by people. I need to listen to Genesys and Tyros to make judgement. OR... I can take Sherlock Holmes advice, "It is a capital mistake to theorize without data."

I think no one can play MEGA Voices properly in live situation. There are about 10 layers in those MEGA Voices. And each layer is dramatically different. YAMAHA also says in the manual that if you play live you may get unexpected or undesireable sounds from those MEGA Voices.

Go read the manual, and see what each layer is.