The "bars" I play are upscale resteraunts. Very few patrons are "tanked", but there is booze-a-flowin'.
All that said ....... my audience has come to expect a certain excellence from me and they all noticed a change for the better since the Bose. It's drastic. The comments are coming in like crazy.

The sound from my kb is definatly a factor in the overall package, but the way this PAS fills a room is better and fuller than anything else I've had....and I've been in stereo for 20+ years. It's wonderful, it really is.
As for the samples ....... you can debate all day long about what sounds best, but in a crowded room with extraineous noise - mono/stereo is a non factor.

Until you all USE this tower, you really can't comment on the coverage. It's unlike anything I've ever dealt with, and it IS an improvement. As long as the sound going IN is excellent, the sound coming out will be the same!

Fine UD: you want to be the "High Priest of Mono" then that's your choice, but everything you said about mono ain't the gospel truth. The engineers at Bose at trying Yamaha P250's on their mono Bose PAS systems and are finding that summing the mono signal causes phase problems. Forget how crowded the room is or isn't - phase problems will cancel part of the sound BEFORE it ever gets to your audience. They actually think you should use the mono XG piano samples instead of the signature stereo sounds of the P250, or buy two PAS systems of course, to avoid this. But they only invented your PAS system so what do they know?

Read their comments here

Hmmm, a bit testy today Jim?
C'mon - you know I love stereo as much as the next guy. My point is not "mono is best" ... but rather: Sometimes, stereo doesn't MATTER.
I repeat - the problem with a stereo sample that sounds bad in mono is the sample, itself, not the system, so don't fault the PAS for lousy Yamaha samples.
Stereo effects have been a large part of the "sizzle" in sounds since the very "average" M1 of old.

All I'm sayin' is ...... for the road warrier who sets up and tears down more than he plays ..... the PAS has been a GOD send. Everything we do involves compromise. This is one area where the mono aspect is minscule compared to the studio quality, even sound that fills the room.

My advise to you all is to stop reading about this system, and PLAY one. On YOUR gear. Tweak it, experiment with it, and make your mind up. For me, the choice was easy. The improvement I get in sound with the Bose has been far greater than the loss I get from a mono sound. It's such a small deal really ...... the rest of the package has so many advantages - I could never go backwards. Remember, I also have a second tower for those times when stereo can be effective. I want it all, and I have no desire to entertain the priesthood.

Agreed with UD: Listen to the system, pack it, unpack it, then decide for yourself.

On a different topic, my pastor called me last night and asked me to setup the PAS for the Passion play next month. This church always play some sort of the Passion on Good Friday. This pastor has been here for 8 years and he requested this year to use the PAS instead of the regular audio system that the church had been using for the last 6 years. I'm pretty sure he like the sound from the PAS.

..rb

UD: what's testy about what I said? You've been hammering this 'go mono for the sake of PAS' thing over and over for weeks... give it a rest already. The PAS and/or running mono isn't the only convenient way to do a gig. If Bose engineers found that running a stereo Yamaha piano in mono produced phasing cancellation (why ignore that?) and you're willing to live with that - it's your music. But a lot of your generalities like "stereo doesn't MATTER" and "the problem is the sample, not the system" are speculation and nothing more. You're asking for faith, Father Dave of the PAS.

Jim,
The name calling is uncalled for. We're just talkin' here. That's what I mean by testy.
My observations on stereo in a large room are not speculation - they are researched, tested responses from many different areas of application.

I agree - there are MANY fine systems available, and I have used almost all of them, but I'm trying to share a breakthrough with an uneducated buyers group here. This is a whole new ball game, and I think it's exciting. The stereo sample issue is further punctuated by my original rule of thumb - KB's NEED to have speakers on board. That way, the original tone comes through in the performers face. How you make it louder for a larger area is still loaded with options. The Bose is just one of the newest, coolest options that needs a better understanding before it's accepted.

I don't know if you'll find this interesting or not but here goes....

I threw together some samples of the Tyros piano and Korg PA1X piano taken from the excellent demos provided by Dirk Baert (notlos). First up is the Tyros, a short clip played in stereo, 128 Kbs, mp3. No edits, same as the original. Then comes just the right channel, then the left, then the sum of both channels to mono.

Tyros Piano Stereo

Tyros Piano R. Ch.

Tyros Piano L. Ch.

Tyros Piano Summed Mono

No doubt about it, you lose a lot of good sound.

Here's the Korg's PA1X piano demo, again from Dirk's demos.

PA1X Piano Stereo

PA1X Piano R. Ch.

PA1X Piano L. Ch.

PA1X Piano Summed Mono

Kind of sounds like this piano patch will suffer the same fate as the Tyros when summing.

So here's my dumb question...Why? Why do the manufacturers do this? I understand why they play with the phase for ambience or spatial effects. But why play with the phase of the actual piano sound?

Tyros owners...When playing your stereo piano samples thru a stereo PA at your venues, how does it sound back in the far corners or way in the back of the room, out away from where the stereo field exists?

mike

I'm confused about you folks using the Motion Sound amps. Aren't these amps basically mono? Don't they reproduce a simulated stereo. Do they have two discrete output channels? All the specs that I've found say that they have two input channels. I've read nothing about two output channels.

Tom

[This message has been edited by Tom Cavanaugh (edited 03-17-2004).]

Hi Tom,

The Motion Sound KP200S is STEREO! Two double stereo inputs and an additional microphone (mono) input. There is also a stereo L/R output (2 x XLR) in case you want to connect another PA. There is even a very effective stereo enhancer on each of the two input channels. This a unique feature of these stereo amps.

-- José.

Here's a hunch. By now, other brands should be having their eyes and ears on the new PAS concept. Maybe they will come up with a clone of it, and who knows, cheaper and already taking in consideration our "stereo needs". That would be great wouldn't it?

-- José.