I am glad Liontracks have finally made it into mainstream press. This is a bit after the party (NAMM was almost a month ago), but better late then never.

One thing that I see in the X-76 that I like is that the chassis is compact (with the mod/pitch wheels above the keyboard, and not on the left of it. I am sure this will help make it a bit lighter than it it would have been otherwise (or than Neko), and in my book lighter is better.

I will reserve my overall judgement on this instrument until I see how it sounds and feels under my fingers. I only hope that they will have a dealer in Phoenix area who will have one that will get one in stock, so that I can look at it (or offer free 30-45 day return).

Good luck to Liontracks (it even rhymes)

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 02-11-2004).]

If this Lionstracs sells well, Yamaha, Roland, Kord, etc., will have to re-thing there marketing strategies.
Starkeeper

You can bet the big 3 have been thinking in this direction, probably long before these 2 boards were ever thought of. Like IBM used to do though they would let other companies pump the big bucks into all the R&D to see if the product will fly or not and create the market for it, then they would come out with the new and improved version to an existing market already.

In short IBM did not create the markets they let someone else do that but then built a better mouse trap.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

yea, you have right Starkeeper..

I get some interesting calls there, from someone that your know well, but I don't have accepted. Is 10 years that I develope for others company, now is time that LIONSTRACS name go UP and teach how design the future.
Anyway, is hard that they big company take this way, why they are afraid of the Open souce,why then all ppl may copying.
Good for us, why WE want that all can copy and developing better our application ( under GPL of couse)

is like Aliev, I'm sure someday like buy a Mediastation and develope this great keyboard new GOOD application and maybe to be our Lionstracs developer too.
Just look now in our webpage : about
A lot of our engineers are around the world and they don't need to working here, just a DSL line connect in forward,inside my Master mediastation here in Italy!

Aliev, if you like, we can send you the GUI files under QT and you can drawing/editing all the GUI windows how you want and then have your personal mediastation GUI.
of course, if we have some bugs, you can help to fix too or add new function, just contact Sbenno.

I had upload in the website new GUI's and Video clips

Another point to be clean...we don't competition with the others company, we just have a different product technology, ideas and marketing.
Totally respect for the others...I'm still own of a Korg trinity, Roland G-800/megafloppy ( my old product) Yamaha AW4416.

Cheers
Domenik

domenik,
I'll better wait to have your firmware at my home first. And only then I'll be thinking about tweaking software

I am not a programmer now. I do employ Linux programmers at my own firm. If I will need a new Mediastation application (e.g. style morphing) I'll simply pay for it and then share that new module with others...

Aliev
I'm iteresting too in to styles morphing, I think that is a good stuff, just to have some different.
In this moments all my 6 Linux software developer are to much busy, but IF you know someone that like develope it under Linux ( and know for what we are talking for ) let me know. Benno may send some source code and application of or 32 tracks Arranger and ADD this new functions

Let me know
Domenik

I do not understand how my guys can develop Arranger add-ons software without mediastation hardware to testing and debugging.

Better I will wait for getting of Mediastation hardware at home and will be speaking with my programmers after that.

Therefore I will patiently wait till April.

Sorry no source code will be posted before the Mediastation will not ship.
Thirdparty developers need documentation when accessing code and programming interfaces so putting online work in progress stuff does not make much sense.

BTW: don't beat anyone if the dates slip a bit
As said better finished stuff a bit later than defective stuff now. (on SZ we see often complaints about unfinished/defective firmware of keyboards).

cheers,
Benno
http://www.linuxsampler.org

Benno, Domenik,

Actually, there have been a number of business studies which all prove that Time to Market is the MOST important thing.

While I agree with the idea about half-baked software, my main concern is critical bugs (which cause system to hang up and die). The others, which are functional improvements, can wait until the update.

I am surprised GEM did not capitalize on the time advantage and made more inroads into the market, having had prototypes out a year ago, and demonstrating a supposedly working version at summer NAMM. As a result, they are virtually unknown here in the US, while all the buzz is around the Korgs. I hope you don't fall into the same trap.

I would also be concerned with the fact that MusicIndustries are not promoting your products all that much.

I am not telling you how to run your business, but I am interested in having your undertaking succeed if for no other reason than to keep the others honest.

Regards,
Alex

I'm actually starting to wonder where the value is in buying one of these (Neko or Media) boards.

I have a laptop, I can get all the plug ins and just use one of my boards as a contoller. I could even swap to the Linux system if I wanted and all that would be far cheaper than either of these boards.

The demos for Mediastation are far less than impressive and there aren't any demos that I have ever seen of someone actually playing a Neko and making sounds come out of it.

So what is all this really, essentially a pc/laptop with hard surface controls.

Hmmmm maybe I'm not so hot for one of these afterall. Not to mention the fact that domenik has already said as much that the "big boys" seem to have taken a keen interest as well, which translates to what cool model will they come out with.

Me thinks I'll just chill on this concept for awhile.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 02-15-2004).]

Terry,

for studio work you can have a rack full of stuff (and you will be better off with it too). You typically won't care how much time it takes to boot up, connect together, or select all the patches.

For playing live, especially for short gigs, where you have to get in and out quickly, and must have everything selectable quickly, at the tips of your fingers. You've got a request for a particular song in the middle of playing. How many button presses will it take to select the new rhythm? the sound that go along with it? Can you do it without stopping, so that the people don't start leaving the dance floor?

To me there is a definite value in having an integrated all in one instrument, and I am prepared to pay SOME premium for it. I don't think I am ready to shell out $6000 for it, but a capable laptop with the right software and audio interface will run you at least $2000, and quite likely significantly more; the keyboard controller is $500-800. I would say that all-in-one keyboard would be worth an extra $1000, for a total of about $4000. This is a lot for a keyboard, but I am assuming that you would get all the audio capabilities as you would with the good laptop - very high quiality sounds with loads of polyphony, MP3 and .Kar playback, good graphical sequencer, CD recording, plus the flexible arranger capabilities and microphone/input processing. In addition to all that, you should be able to easily navigate around the system using tactile feedback of buttons (no touchscreen use should be required during live play).

In truth, I don't care whether the instrument use Linux, Windows, or proprietary OS of Yamaha, Korg, or Roland, as long as it gets the job done. The only advantage is that the Linux or Windows instrument is more likely to be supported after sale with enhancement-type features.

Regards,
Alex

Alex,
I understand your point, I think it can still be done for quite a bit less and ALMOST the same if not more in some cases flexibility.

Unless these things are made so that the entire o/s can be changed as new more powerful programs and plug ins come out, it will get to be old news much like computers do. As bigger better faster chips and other hardware things come out It will certainly be cheaper to replace the laptop over one of these boards too. One can replace the laptop for $2k....one of these $5k.

I'm just not convinced yet. Initially Ithought very cool, I'm just not that sure anymore, especially with the demos and videos I've seen.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 02-16-2004).]

I'm inclined to agree with Terry. I already have four keyboards that can be used as a controller and I already have a laptop with a 2.66 gig PIV and a gig of ram, so some good WORKING softsyths are probably more what I'm interested in; particularly since they will ONLY be used in my studio because the only outside playing I do is at church and the organ is already there.

Tom

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Bigger is not always better

On a related note, the neko online store now permits custom configuration.
The smallest model you can buy (P4 1.8GHz) with 76 keys + LCD touchscreen goes for $ 5,395.00.

But I still read nothing about the software, ease of use, if there is any integration of controllers with preexisting apps etc ....

Benno

Sorry for the cross-posting but this discussion dovetails the one entitled "An Exercise in Frustration", and I wanted to share a post I made in that thread which relates to this thread:

You may recall the thread I started here some weeks ago about the "Gigstation": a concept keyboard based totally on softsynths. I've taken it a couple of steps further and the rough draft image below is the result. The keyboard is simple: a case that houses an 88-note controller, a computer and two monitors. At first I was going to go with one big dual monitor but I decided that two monitors on either side would work better and would leave open the possibility of a music stand in front. The computer is built into the QWERTY keyboard for live use (http://www.cybernetman.com/), or you could have a regular computer workstation with the CPU underneath or wherever. You could substitute a laptop but my eyesight isn't getting any better and I need large screens closeup (touch screens would be a bonus too). I designed this with live performance in mind but it works just as well for the studio. Ideally I would like to mount the monitors on some sort of swivel so they would swivel & fold down over the keyboard and a lid would cover the entire workstation. Legs could fit into the case lid for transport. Open Labs, the company that makes the overpriced eKo which is similar in concept to the Gigstation, is releasing a new desktop OS especially for working with softsynths/VST's called Karsyn that looks very promising as the desktop for the Gigstation. One other option would be to also use a JLCooper CS-32 mini-mixer so that you'd have sliders that could act as volume controls for the different instruments. BTW: I estimate that this keyboard, depending on the components you chose and not including the softsynths, would cost under $2500 to build.



[This message has been edited by The Pro (edited 02-17-2004).]