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#112278 - 08/19/06 04:58 PM Minor brownout--major headache...
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
The mid Atlantic region of the U.S. has been experiencing lots of hot, humid weather through much of the summer. Conditions such as these tax the regional electrical system to the point where voltage levels tend to fall below acceptible levels. While most equipment will function just fine with a 15 to 20 volt drop in AC power, it turns out that some arranger keyboards, vocal processors and amps will encounter problems. This was the case for me today.

While performing a 1-hour job at a very large retirement community it was very noticible that the air conditioning system seemed to be struggling considerably, and not very effective. Knowing these places are notoriously hot, I, and most of my colleagues, carry small, but powerful fans to keep us cool while setting up and performing.

When the system was turned on the keyboard's lights seemed a bit dimmer than usual. Additionally the fan sitting on the floor next to me appeared to be running slower than normal. After firing up all the equipment it was obvious that all the volume levels had to be turned up by at 25 to 30 percent in order to acheive the same levels enjoyed in cooler weather.

Some of the residents said the complained about the heat, and the facility's maintenance department said they were experiencing a minor brownout and that they were assured by the electric company that things would return to normal by evening.

After checking the operating specifications of all the equipment it became painfully obvious that once the line voltage drops below 100 volts AC, some of the equipment will not function at all. Today's line voltage was just above 100 instead of the normal 120 VAC.

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this type of problem in the past, and if so what steps were taken to prevent this from happening in the future.

Just another fun day in Paradise,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#112279 - 08/19/06 05:34 PM Re: Minor brownout--major headache...
MrEd Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/04
Posts: 519
UPS (Uninterrupted Power Supply) to the rescue.
I use them on my PC's. They maintain a clean voltage, and in brownouts and blackouts, they provide full power to continue playing, but the time is limited, and that limit depends on the model you buy and how much you want to spend.

I wish they had them years back.
We use to play some dinner/cruise jobs.
I was using a transistor/electronic accordion and the power regulator (of the ship) created a brownout and my system would shut down, off and on. It happened over and over thru the night.

I should have stuck with my old tube-type accordion. It would have played but it would have been out of tune, and the others would just have to retune their instruments and vocals to follow me.

On the UPS, if you shop around for 1, see if you can get 1 that does not sound a warning beep when it kicks in. Mine do.
but the beeps are when the power has actually been interrupted, in which case, in your situation, a little beep won't be heard over the screaming dancers and the sounds of faces being slapped in the dark, and hearing things like "get your hands off me"



[This message has been edited by MrEd (edited 08-19-2006).]

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#112280 - 08/19/06 06:02 PM Re: Minor brownout--major headache...
Stephenm52 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 5126
Loc: USA
Quote:
Originally posted by travlin'easy:


Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this type of problem in the past, and if so what steps were taken to prevent this from happening in the future.

Just another fun day in Paradise,

Gary



Gary you may want to try Apc.com American Power Conversion for your UPS. I worked for them a brief time 6 years ago. They make quality products and their tech support department is top notch. They are located a few miles from where I live in Rhode Island.

Good Luck



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 08-19-2006).]

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#112281 - 08/19/06 06:09 PM Re: Minor brownout--major headache...
MrEd Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/04
Posts: 519
Stephen,
Thats the brand I use and they have been put to the test a good number of times with a few brownouts and total power losses and the systems have never failed.

I had my work computer, down at my employers office, plugged into my own APC, when a storm took out the boards of neighboring employees, but my PC was perfectly fine the next morning.

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#112282 - 08/19/06 07:57 PM Re: Minor brownout--major headache...
quietDIN Offline
Member

Registered: 11/02/04
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally posted by travlin'easy:
[...]After checking the operating specifications of all the equipment it became painfully obvious that once the line voltage drops below 100 volts AC, some of the equipment will not function at all. Today's line voltage was just above 100 instead of the normal 120 VAC.

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this type of problem in the past, and if so what steps were taken to prevent this from happening in the future.

While either a UPS or voltage regulating transformer could probably do the job for you, they might be overkill for the type of problem you've described. Furthermore, some generate harmonics that can cause audible interference. There's a simple solution that will work if we're truly talking about a brownout condition of 15-20 volts below normal line and not more-significant line drops.

You might consider getting a variable-voltage autotransformer ("Variac", although that's actually a specific brand). A typical one's output can be adjusted from zero VAC up to about 15% over the input voltage. That would mean with 100 VAC in, you could obtain 115 VAC out. Many are metered; some come with built-in voltmeters, some with ammeters, some have both (if unmetered, plugging in a meter is not a big deal). They're available in a variety of current/power ratings, so a quick calculation of what your equipment draws plus a small margin should allow you to determine the necessary capacity. I've seen 10-amp units selling new for $70 or so.

The drawback to a Variac is of course that the output adjustment is manual. For the situation you described, Gary, a one-time adjustment would have probably gotten you through the session. A concern might be that if the line voltage increased to "normal" while you were playing, you might not be able to rapidly adjust the voltage back down. However, if you've only increased it 10-15% or so, it's really unlikely that any modern equipment couldn't sustain that small percentage of overvoltage should the line indeed have returned to 120 VAC.

Just a thought.

--Barry


[This message has been edited by quietDIN (edited 08-19-2006).]
_________________________
Yamaha: Motif XF6 and XS6, A3000V2, A4000, YS200 | Korg: T3EX, 05R/W | Fender Chroma Polaris | Roland U-220 | Etc.

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#112283 - 08/19/06 09:06 PM Re: Minor brownout--major headache...
Jenkins Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/01
Posts: 37
Loc: NC, USA
This might be what you are looking for.
http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=67#anchor1

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#112284 - 08/20/06 06:24 AM Re: Minor brownout--major headache...
kbrkr Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2867
Loc: Tampa, FL
I use the APC Voltage Regulator on ALL my gigs to protect my equipment. My Powered mixer is more sensitive to power drops than my keyboards. The voltage regulator (UPS) keeps line voltage at a constant 120 here in the states. I find this time of the year with more outdoor gigs, power problems are more prevalent. I also keep a blue tarp in my car on outdoor gigs just in case the tent we are supplied with doesn't do the job.



------------------
Al Giordano
www.al-giordano.com

Tyros 2, Yamaha P-250, Korg Triton Extreme 76, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums
_________________________
Al

Pa4x - LD Systems Maui 28 - Mackie Thumps

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#112285 - 08/20/06 07:05 AM Re: Minor brownout--major headache...
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Al,

The APC devices look great. I'm looking for something that would be rated at approximately 1500 watts. Unfortunately, the web side for APC didn't list wattage or prices. They listed volt/amps, which is somewhat confusing.

Thanks everyone for your responses,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#112286 - 08/20/06 07:15 AM Re: Minor brownout--major headache...
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
That happened to me during a hurricane ...we just played acoustic piano & had a singalong......took my check and went home

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#112287 - 08/20/06 07:35 AM Re: Minor brownout--major headache...
quietDIN Offline
Member

Registered: 11/02/04
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally posted by travlin'easy:
[...]They listed volt/amps, which is somewhat confusing.

Multiply volts times amps to get volt-amperes (VA), which is approximately equal to watts. (The ratio between VA and watts has to do with what is known as "power factor", but it probably isn't going to be very significant when dealing with audio gear.)

For example, a 120 volt unit rated at 10 amps would be good for about 1200 watts.

--Barry
_________________________
Yamaha: Motif XF6 and XS6, A3000V2, A4000, YS200 | Korg: T3EX, 05R/W | Fender Chroma Polaris | Roland U-220 | Etc.

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