Chris,
Thanks for the comments! Get this.., the bass I used was called "Juno Bass 1" I took that bass sound, opened up the reso. then set the D-Beam to control "Cutoff".

Squeak

I think that the reason arrangers don't get much respect in the US (we're a small fraction of the total keyboard market) is that there is very little development of styles in these rap and hiphop styles....... Oh yes, you'll find a few on your arranger, but outnumbered by ballroom styles 20-1, 30-1 etc..

Plus they just don't seem to have much 'flava', sort of a middle of the road version of rap.

Tritons and Motifs are FLYING off the shelves in the US, in large part due to the excellent, cutting edge arpeggiated and beat-boxed patches that sound like something phresh off the radio. Try one in the store, you think that you could be a rap star........... Try an arranger, you think you're going to play an old folks home!

BUT.......... there is no technical reason why any of the top-of-the-line arrangers can't make the same beats, but no-one programs them that way! The voicing team that makes the slammin' beats in a FantomX never gets used by Roland to make styles for the G70, etc..

If any of these companies chose to address the needs of the younger (at heart!) generation, rather than their corporate roadmaps, Tyros2's and G70s would be all the rage in the 'hood and their bottom lines would soar!

Because of the simple repetitive nature of modern urban music, arrangers are BY FAR the best tool to make it with (at least live......), and only need better, younger style programmers, and perhaps an SRX board with more urban drumkits and sounds on it (more profit!!) to dominate the workstation market.

After all, just like most other forms of music, it's easier and more fun to do it on an arranger than have to program it on a workstation.........

Well said Diki.

Diki,
You're dead on in your response. I honestly can't see either of the big three making a high end arranger that is capable of producing the same quality of Hip Hop as you could on a Motif, Fantom, or Triton.

It essentially would be something like a Motif with arranger capabilities. I will tell you from personal experience, there will be some difficulty in terms of limitations (even with a high end arranger) when it comes to Hip Hop, Rap, and R&B.

Sure you can program a style, but you really need total freedom (without being restriced to a particular key) when recording the bass part. Also the way an arranger is set up with fills would also make it a little more difficult with both the drums and bass as well.

The closest attempts I know to date to this type of keyboard was the Roland EG-101, and the original Yamaha DJX.

Squeak



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 07-19-2006).]

Squeak: Though hip hop grooves (in general) aren't my thing, I think the instrument sounds you chose for this sounds very kool. I only wish you'd post a completed song (not merely a sample snippet) for us to hear someday. Keep going on this and share with us after you have it done. - Scott

An excellent effort, Squeak.

Sounds great!

Ian

Hi Squeak

I like the beat, the groove, the sounds and the licks. In other words I really liked everthing except I would have dug more of it.

How do you save these beats? Can you save them in midi format? If so, I'm thinking they can be converted to a style. I would think it could be good because then you could pretty much play on the fly, whereas, at least as I understand it, on a workstation, you set a groove like this and you play with whats there, not being able to change much of anything. Am I correct with that?

Scott

Scott,

Glad you liked the beat There's actually a reason the sample I provided isn't long.

When I create hip hop beats and grooves, they're created for the purpose of a "groove". Meaning to be used in a "groove box" fasion. Synths allow you to do this.

My beats and grooves can be saved in SMF format directly from the keyboard. I have the option of doing this or storing the "pattern internally".

One could take a beat that I have written in SMF format, and use a keyboard or software with a feature that converts SMF's to styles.

If that's done however, the user of course will have to tweek it a bit to their liking then save the settings. I will say this.., if you're going to convert hip hop grooves to styles on an arranger, it would be "very" beneficial if the arranger being used had the ability to (fully edit) the drum kits. Not global edits that affect the entire kit, but rather the ability to edit each part individually.

The problem that I have seen is that arrangers often do not have the drum kits that fit the style. One huge benefit some will have though is having the T2 with the hard drive. You could then load in "more modern" hip hop kits, and use those--in turn bringing a modern sound, and feel to the style.

Squeak

I am not being bias here at all, but the PSR 3000, and the Tyros 2 have excellent R&B and Hip Hop beats.

I am a younger player and I love the modern dance Ibiza/euro type styles and I have tried technics, casio(yes casio..I was poor) and roland, and at the moment the PSR 3K and T2 are awesome for all contemporary genres of music. (not sure about the G70 or E80)

For a long time keyboards have had really tacky old fashioned styles when it comes to "rap" or "hip hop" or "techno" but now its good enough and at the level it should be.

Besides, too many people complain that certain keybaords lack a certain particular style of such.. HELLO its an arranger stop being lazy and make your own!!

Cheers,
Nick

[This message has been edited by Nick G (edited 07-21-2006).]

Nick,
I disagree to some extent. I will say that yes, arrangers have come a long way with these styles, but in my opinion still aren't quite there yet. The old Yamaha DJX original (which is quite a few years old now), if set along side the PSR-3000 would make it sound quite poor in terms of those styles (however keep in mind the original DJX was designed "specifically" for hip hop, R&B, rap, techno, and other electronica styles). Why Yamaha didn't continue on with the legacy of the original DJX is something I'll never understand--Plus they sold A LOT of original DJX's. They were also being bought by pros!

I gave the PSR-3000 a good run when I tested it out. Some of the more modern styles on it aren't too bad. I will say the 3000 will do alright with the styles "you" like such as some dance/ibiza, and euro type styles.

However, when it comes to modern hip hop and rap--I'm talking US based, the PSR-3000 lacks the drum kits for these styles. Hip Hop, R&B, and Rap in the US are styles that change "literally" by the hour The sounds are constantly changing. Everytime you turn your head there's a new drum kit created, or bass patch created as well.

I think the T2 would favor a little better, but that's only because it has the option of a hard drive. It can load in new sounds, and samples. That would give the T2 the ability to have a more modern sound and feel for these styles.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 07-21-2006).]