Ok guys, b4 you get too excited . . . I'm first to admit that I myself wasn't lucky enough to make it to the official Yamaha Tyros2 premiere presentation held in London today (10/1), but an arr keyboard buddy of mine, and SZ member: 'thewolf' (who recently owned a PSR3000) did. In fact he flew all the way from Finland just to make it to the event.

Upon his return back to his London hotel room, he called me (via Skype), to share his impresssions, and answer questions I had previously requested to find out about Tyros2. First of all, not only did he attend the Tyros2 Premiere Presentation (that evening), but earlier in the day, was fortunate to be able to actually sit down to explore and play a Tyros2 in their showroom, not for one, but SEVERAL hours!

Here are just a few of the things he shared with me. The first thing he said was that he was immediately blown away by the awesome realism of Yamaha's new 'Super Articulation Voices' and how easily they were to play, and so intuitively, on the new Tyros2 keyboard. He told me he was left speechless from that incredible sound experience.

As a comparison, he played a Tyros1, saying the sound improvement difference between Tyros1 voices and Tyros2 S.A voices was incredibly phenomenal, and felt that this improvement alone more than well worth an upgrade from Tyros1 to Tyros2.

He also reported that the Tyros2 keyboard action felt 'very responsive', and even though the keys are lightweight compared to fully weighted piano keys, they have considerably more weight, and more importantly, better 'touch response' than Tyros1. He pointed out that the Tyros2 keys gave him the feeling of being 'connected' to the acoustic instrument he was playing on the keyboard, and that 'somehow magically', appropriate acoustic instrument sounds (string pops, valve clicks, pops, sound variations. etc) came in automatically, at just the right moments, inspiring his playing further. He felt the keyboard action response along with the new S.A voices raised both his perceived keyboard playing ability, and dramatically increased the realism of the the acoustic instrument he was playing (on the keyboard). He told me that he felt that the impressive playable S.A voices ALONE were enough to make it worth getting the Tyros2.

He too had heard the the web Tyros2 MP3 demos, and told me that they don't do justice to how terrific they actually sound when played & heard LIVE.

Ok, here are a few other things my friend was able to test & confirm for me about Tyros2:

1. MusicFinder now returns you to whatever record (song) you had last called up, even after going into other menus, or exiting to the MAIN LCD screen.

2. Yamaha UK confirmed to him that Tyros1 (TRS-MS01's + sub) speakers will work & play fine on Tyros2, as both Tyros2 speakers (TRS-MS02 + sub) and Tyros1 speakers (TRS-MS01 + sub) utilize the SAME speaker input connecters & Tyros speaker output sockets. The ONLY incompatibility is that the Tyros1 TRS-MS01 satellite speaker 'mounting brackets' are incompatible and subsequently won't mount to the back of Tyros2.

3. Microphone input on Tyros2 is the same as Tyros1: 1/4"

4. Cosmetically: Tyros2 looks very cool, with a more compact sleek appearance and 'more up to date' look than Tyros1. Tyros1 sitting side by side, now looks a bit old fashioned in comparison.

Ok, hopefully arranger keyboard buddy: Heike, will now step forward to provide a followup to my posting here, and confirm, deny, or 'add to' what I've relayed so far.

Heike, you're defintely 'da Wolf' man here. Thanks again for sharing.

Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 10-01-2005).]

Scott,

Thanks for keeping us uptodate on the Tyros2 and narrating that first hand experience of ‘TheWolf’. Lucky guy!

I had two quick questions.

1. Can the Tyros2 read in a Standard MIDI File and reassign all the GM, GS, XG voices to its own set of superior internal voices at the click of a button like the Yamaha Clavinova CVP-307? This makes a world of difference in the rendering of MIDI files that you find on the net.

2. Can the Tyros2 play back a MIDI sequence while assigning a few of its MIDI channels to external mode while at the same time being able to punch in the appropriate bank number as well as program number to control voice allocation on an external sound module? Both MSB and LSB values must be able to be set and transmitted across each external MIDI channel.

Even better if you could set the Volume and Pan parameters too!

Tapas

Thanks Scottyee for sharing this awesome information! The Super Articulation Voices in the Tyros 2 seem to draw much attention and get nice feedback. When I listened to those Tyros 2 demo samples I was the most impressed with those super articulation voices. I instantly wanted to hear more... I hope there are more sound samples posted of these sounds soon because I'm very interested in for instance super articulation of the acoustic piano sound.

I have a question. Heike, what was your impression of the acoustic pianos? Any big improvements from the Tyros 1? The acoustic piano section of the Tyros 1 is very limited, I hope there are much more samples of this important element in the Tyros 2.

Is the Tyros I Vocalizer Improved?

Thank you so much Scott for this nice report on the T2 !

I'm looking forward to read more... and more ... and more

Scott:
Dito to Roels msg.
I'm not familiar with ty 1's outputs, and wondering if there's going to be 1/4" L and R main outs, and seperate plug-ins for the sat speakers and sub, on tyII. close up monitor's are a must for me, really going to miss the psr9000, onboards! But I guess the yamaha speaker system will be comparible and just used for monitors, and I can still use the main outs for primary amplification? any thoughts about this from you or (anyone) would be appreciated.

I'm going to have to alter my (homemade) L 7 stand bracket to move the laptop out of the way of the R sat speaker, and make a shelf underneath the kybd suspended from the bracket to keep the sub off the floor out of the way of all the junk I have on the floor. but sure looking forward to a new TyII after using the 9000 for 4 years......Cheers.......Pose

I'm ready to make the change, just waiting for them to come out, and hear more about them and what the price is going to end up being.......Pose

Hi VoiceOfSpace: First of all, a great big welcome to the Synthzone Arranger Keyboard forum.



Unfortunately, the T2 acoustic pianos don't include super articulation. In fact, I was told that the acoustic 'grand piano' voice is actually the same one used in T1. I agree that the Tyros acoustic grand not nearly as impressive sounding as the real thing, especially when playing it exposed in a solo piano setting, yet find it quite pleasing when played with auto-accompaniment, even in a sparse, bass & drums accomp setup. Considering the Tyros only includes 61 keys anyway, the Tyros was not really designed for solo piano style work, so perhaps I've been forgiving.

My hope is that Yamaha might eventually make a Super Articulation style Acoustic Piano Voice available to Tyros2 owners, and downloded into the keyboard via the Tyros2 Internet feature.

VoiceOfSpace: Because your user profile includes no background information about yourself, can you at least tell us where you live (Country-Region), and what (arranger?) keyboards you play? Thanks.

Scott

Hi Pose. T2's outputs are the SAME as T1, of which include 1/4" MAIN OUTS 1/2 (L/R) plus dedicated 1/4" outputs for the sattellite speakers & subwoofer. In fact, as I stated in another thread, the T1 TRS-M01's will work on T2. The ONLY limitation is that the T1 satellite speaker 'mounting brackets' are incompatible with T2. - Scott

I have just been to a Tyros 2 Demonstration in Bolton.

It was not possible to get some time alone with the beast, but I was able to run my fingers over the keyboard and I would describe the action as nicely weighted, sprung keys. There was a Tyros 1 in the showroom and those keys felt very light in comparison. Both felt rather better than my PSR3000, but thats not a shock to anyone!

I thought the sound was superb, coming through the official speakers.

And I must agree that the Super Articulation feature is a knockout, and very playable. The demonstrator played me some Sax and Guitar lines and the realism attained without any obvious effort was amazing.

I have always felt if my 3k was stolen, I would replace it with another 3k because I couldn't justify the extra expense of a Tyros 1 for the improvements gained. The Tyros 2 is a different matter; the Super Articulation voices alone are a tangible leap forward that could well justify the extra expense.

Tapas: The PSR's from 1000 up have all got an automatic midi voice re-allocation capability, it's one of the song settings, so the Tyros (1 or 2) must surely have the same facility. This is not a "magic bullet" solution; there are still issues of relative voice levels to deal with. I've used Michael Bedesam's "MidiPlayer" utility to do the remap / remix function with great success. Regarding the "play midi to external" you can certainly (again on all the higher-level PSRs so hopefully on the Tyros) you can route song-playback midi channels to external midi channels; however I don't know if you could mute these tracks on the host keyboard. I'm pretty sure that the track data "sent out" will include all the usual information including patch/bank/volume/pan data.

Hope this helps!

[This message has been edited by MacAllcock (edited 10-02-2005).]

I wonder if the TRS-MS02 speakers have a higher wattage rating than the MS01's do. The MS01's 20Wx2 with a 40W Sub just didn't cut the mustard from what many people have said. If Yammie doubled the wattage of both the Satellites and Sub it would sure add another incentive to get a T2 and of course make it better suited for Lounge or other small venues.

Oh btw, the User Flash Memory on the Tyros2 is only 3.2Mb compared to the Tyros' 3.3Mb. Why did they take a step backward on such an essential feature? Memory prices are much cheaper today and it doesn't make sense to me why Yamaha didn't put in a much larger User Memory. Say 20 Mb's or more. It would always come in handy.

Another beef is the Sequencer. From the looks of things the note capacity for song recording is similar to the Tyros at 300kb maximum?? Which is around 35,000 notes if I'm not mistaken. The note capacity in my opinion should be similar to regular Workstations such as the Roland FantomX's at 260,000 notes! The Motif ES has a 226,000 note capactiy on its Sequencer. Why is Yamaha so stingy when it comes to their Arrangers, especially their 'high-end' ones?

If Yamaha wants more Professionals to purchase their high end Arrangers they need to put in more professional features to accommodate them. And they need to quit marketing their Flagship Arrangers as keyboards for the Home Hobbyist for goodness sakes. Display them in the Professional Keyboard area of Music Stores. Home Hobbyists will surely walk the few additional feet to check out the showroom displaying Keyboards for Professionals don't you think? It will change the 'image' of the product from a toy to BOY!!! what an amazing product! And it's right here in the PRO keyboard area! YO! Salesman, I'll take it.

I've got other complaints (which many of you know by now ) but I'll withhold from speaking them at this time. I don't want your smiles to turn into frowns. The Tyros2 is a 'big' leap ahead as far as 'sounds' go. But features are what professionals are looking for not just sounds. You provide both and you have an instant winner. You provide only one in the equation and you've essentially missed the boat and your total sales would not be nearly as abundant. Which I'm sure Yammie realizes, right??

Best regards,
Mike

Is there XLR mic input and a second guest Mic input on tyros II?

DNJ,

No XLR inputs and no phantom-power.

Roel thanx for the tyros II info.....

yet another double post, sorry.

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 10-02-2005).]

Ok, here's the REVIEW:

Now that I'm back in Finland and a full day has passed since my first encounter with the Tyros2, I feel like I'm in a reasonable state of mind to produce a short report. As Scott and Kenneth know after our Skype conference from last night, right after the show it was pretty much "whooah it's just so f*cking good man!". I feel I owe you people a little more than that.. so let's start my journey from Fenchurch Street railway station in downtown London.

I got on a train to Westcliff-on-sea, which is about 20-30 miles east of London. A small idyllic very English looking coastal town in Essex. Weren't there any Tyros2's in downtown London? Whatever the case, this is where the sales department from Yamaha UK directed me.

Westcliff-on-sea. Typicial little English town with Fish'n'Chip shops:



The dealer was called MusicLand, and apparently they have several stores around southern England. I soon found the shop and walked in, and there in front of me was the Tyros2 in flesh and blood.. or polymers I guess. We all know what it looks like now, but let me tell you, it doesn't disappoint. But how does it feel like?

My contact over there at Music Land (he's registered here on Tyros2.net as cobwebs2222, and I've already forgotten his name, sorry m8) soon greeted me, and after having made the mandatory cracks about Finland and reindeers and what not, he proceeded to give me a little demo. He played through a series of styles, showed how the Super Articulation effects are triggered in several different ways (key velocity, modulation wheel, SA pedal) but I didn't really learn anything new. I was just dying to get my own hands on the damn thing, and he was sitting there insisting on demoing it for me!

Well finally he stepped aside, and I took the seat. They weren't using Tyros2's own speaker set, but instead had it hooked to a small PA setup which worked well. There I was sitting in front of the thing we've all been dreaming about for so long. For a brief moment it seemed like I had just taken control of a space shuttle or something, as I had no idea what to do with the keyboard. Silence. I lifted my hand and quietly pressed down one single note.. you know, to make sure it works. A brass sound greeted me and broke the silence in the store. Geez come on, whaddya waiting for - I thought to myself. It's not like you never played a Yamaha arranger before man, get a fcukin' grip! My mind was a blank, but then I remembered Martin Harris playing the ClassicBigBand demo from one of the bootlegged videos.. "use the force, Wolf" he said, so I chose the style, applied one touch settings, and away I went. I hammered the keys and got those "shakes" from the Super Articulation BigBandTrumpet just like Martin. What an amazing sound, and an even more amazing feeling. Next, I tried some of the guitar sounds. The fret noises appeared out of nowhere pretty randomly in suitable places, I didn't have to worry about that. Hitting the pedal produced a knock on the guitar body itself. I let my fingers free and it felt like the Tyros2 was leading them. The keyboard feel was just so good, it actually made me play better than I really do. It felt more responsive somehow.. it's hard to describe. It's like I had become part of the instrument. Nothing like this ever happened with my old PSR-3000.

I'm not sure how much time passed, I just kept playing and playing. There was no end to it. Whenever I punched in a new style, there were dozens of songs lined up in my head to match that style. Who needs the Music Finder Well, speaking of which, I did try it a couple of times. And it was good news for Scott Yee and the rest of us, it no longer jumps to the first record if you leave the music finder and come back. Relating to the Music Finder, there's also a feature now called "repertoire", which means that after choosing any style, you can press a single button and it pulls up all the songs from the Music Finder that match that style. No more guessing what to play with any particular style.

Unfortunately the guys at MusicLand didn't have a hard drive installed, so I couldn't take a look at the HD recorder settings. I was told it was 4-track, but then later in the evening, 2-track. Go figure. Also they didn't have a microphone attached either, so I couldn't sing and test the allegedly improved Vocal Harmony. Again, later on I was told the vocal harmony has hardly changed at all. I'm guessing there's a few more presets to choose from, but the technology has remained the same. However this is pure speculation on my behalf.

I had played for some hours, then felt like having a pint so I left the store for a while to find a good pub. After an extra smooth pint of John Smith's, I returned to the store - again discovering the Tyros2 without a player (I guess these saturday launches in small Essex countryside towns never get too busy ) so I resumed playing. And I'm sorry, I probably should have taken the time to look inside the various menus.. settings, voice creators, sampling, etc. etc. but not once did I even enter the "Functions" menu. I'm sorry friends. I didn't even realize it but the Tyros2 just made me play it (or is it her now) until it was time to close the shop and get ready to leave for the launch show. Well, I felt like having some fish & chips (since I was in England) and so had a huge battered cod & chips & vinegar & salt and another pint.

When I got back, the store was closed and "cobwebs2222 the musicland-guy " was waiting for me by his car. He was nice enough to give me a lift to the launch venue, even though I forgot to bring him reindeer meat. On the backseat of his car was non other than Tyros2 herself. The drive to Crays Hill took somewhat half an hour, during which we talked mostly about the Tyros2. He confirmed that the hard drive can be any standard 2.5" drive, so it's not an expensive proprietary accessory. We also talked about Michel Voncken, Martin Harris and other cool stuff.

When we got to the venue, we met up with another bunch of MusicLand guys, as they were building the setup for the night's show. One of them (apparently cobweb's boss) said they already had enough Tyroses there, and we brought the one on the backseat for nothing. For a while they pondered what to do with it, at which point I helped them to solve the problem by offering to buy the "extra" Tyros2 off their hands This was the first of my several direct purchase offers for these demo units, which were all rejected. I just would have wanted to walk away with a Tyros2 from there.. but it seemed like it wouldn't happen without first committing some horrible crimes.


What are we gonna do with this extra Tyros2??:


Well, people started showing up, maybe a couple of hundred, mostly pensioners. I thought I had come to some retirement home meeting. MusicLand guys said this was expected and completely normal in the UK at least. That's weird. I was left thinking why do gramps and grannies play arrangers. What do young people play?

The hall had a very good looking main stage with Yamaha backdrops etc. and the "main Tyros2" connected to four Yamaha MSR100 speakers, and three other "hands-on Tyroses" which would be available for everyone to play around with after the presentation. Richard Bower was the man on stage, and it was time to begin.

First, Richard played several Super Articulation instruments solo, talked about the technology behind it, cracked some jokes.. he was very enjoyable to watch. Enough with the talking. He proceeded to take us through a medley of songs, which all sounded fantastic, with only one-touch settings and no sequencing or special registrations. The way he spontaneously utilized some Super Articulation effects left the audience in awe, unable to believe their ears (or hearing-aids ) Everything sounded good. If there was a bad sound in the Tyros2, at least I hadn't heard it all day. At the end of his bit, Richard played a special organ medley, demoing new styles such as the OrganBossa and several unbelievable organ voices. I was personally interested in the Tyros2's Hammond section, because I plan on playing this keyboard in a band also.

After the "formal" presentation was over, the crowd was unleashed to try the Tyros2's themselves. I grabbed another Guinness at the bar and mingled with the crowd, talking to several of the very nice MusicLand guys, as well as interviewing Richard Bower for a while. He gave me a Tyros2 demo CD, which contained basically the same stuff as the "Radio Show" tracks some of us have heard. I asked if he knew about any plans of a Tyros2 "module" or some kind of rack synth with this amazing Super Articulation technology, and he said that anything like that isn't planned, and "will never happen". I didn't know if it was a good thing or not. I mean strange that a corporation wouldn't share its technology across departments.

Richard Bower explaining some Tyros2 details:



Another thing I was curious about was the "Text Viewer" feature. I asked Richard about it, and he said it would supposedly accept .TXT files, which might contain lyrics and/or chords, and they would be displayed on the Tyros2 screen. Even he had never really tried it, so I got my 1 Gig jump drive and loaded a text file on it (created with Notepad) and Richard then loaded it into the Tyros2. Sure enough, the text file contents appeared very clearly and nicely on the screen, and you could change the pages with the "TAB" buttons on the top of the screen, or assign a foot switch for that. I found this an extremely welcome feature.. this means I can go out gigging without the music stand & clumsy fake books & folders & papers blocking the view to the audience. Instead, just read the lyrics and chords from the Tyros2 screen!

Again, Richard didn't sing or demo the vocal harmony at all, and when I asked him about it, he said it's basically unchanged. Also, there were no hard drives in any of the hands-on Tyroses either so again I couldn't test the recording functions. Richard however said it is 2-track, and no editing is possible afterwards, for instance if you want to reduce the volume of your vocals. That kind of sucks, I really would have hoped for at least a 4-tracker.

Finally Richard had to pack up and leave, as he had another Tyros2 demo at midnight somewhere else. We shook hands, and I thanked him for his superb performance. He then agreed to take a picture of me, so you could all see I've actually touched the Tyros2 and all this isn't just fiction! So here, the Tyros2 (that Richard played) & TheWolf & half-a-pint of John Smith's (photo by Richard Bower):



Well friends, that just about concludes this report from my Tyros2-journey to the UK. To finish the perfect night, an extremely nice retired couple gave me a lift back to London, and even invited me to their home to have a few whiskeys and play with their Tyros1. A huge thanks to Ken & Margaret Mohammed, I really enjoyed giving my own little performance at your home! Thanks also goes out to MusicLand for having me over, especially "cobwebs2222-the-musicland-dude" whatever your name is.. I'm sorry I didn't call you back today as my phone's battery completely died on me. Those of you who want a Tyros2 in November at a good price, call MusicLand at +441702334488 and tell 'em Wolf from Finland gave you the number, they'll cut you a good deal on a Tyros2!

Ok fruit cakes, talk to you later on Skype maybe. Just add "hkahkola". And one last thing: GET THIS KEYBOARD! I know I will. Cheers!

thewolf

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 10-02-2005).]

Dirty tactics, he should have come clean, http://www.svpworld.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6019&PN=1
[This message has been edited by nardoni2002 (edited 10-02-2005).]

[This message has been edited by nardoni2002 (edited 10-02-2005).]

Thank you Wolf for that excellent review. It's so cool that your journey to London went so well. That picture of the "extra" Tyros 2 made me wonder what acts of evil I might endure to get my hands on it. I am even more excited about getting the Tyros 2 I ordered after reading your review. I am toooooo excited!!! This could be dangerous to my mental health............

Question please. When you tried the Music Finder, are the list of songs the real names or Yamaha's cutsy way of naming them? I would like the real names when using the repetiore function. Thanks. -charley

Hi Charley, though I can't confirm the song title names which appeared in MusicFinder on the Tyros2 Heikke played, I've been informed that in order to avoid copyright infringment, all Tyros2's ship with slightly changed song title names than the original.

Have no fear though. I was assured that a corrected song title MusicFinder File will be made widely available in which Tyros2 owners can 'easily' upload it into Tyros2 and replace the 'changed names' back to the REAL song title names.

Scott

Hi,

The titles on these demo keyboards were not yet "encrypted". I was told they will be once the real shipments begin.

"The Wolf", hmmm?
He looks very young and also not very smart, at least judging from his replies on this thread on Tyros2.net
I too, like Scott, took the liberty to do some "cutting and paisting"; I'll leave the judgement to you all.

Tyros vs Ketron
Author
Da Fletch
Member

VIP-Member

Posts: 362
Location: Somewhere in Europe ;-)
Joined: 26.08.05
Posted on 29-08-2005 22:23 quote
Hi boys & girls

Does any of you have experience with Ketron keyboards ?
I have been listening to some demo's of the SD1 and MidJay
and I must say that I am pleassantly surpriced by the sound quality and their specs.

You can find some demo's of the MidJay on this url http://www.ketron.it/demos/index.asp?idProdotto=22

Let me know what you think !
Author RE: Tyros vs Ketron
thewolf
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Posts: 157
Location: Finland
Joined: 19.08.05
Posted on 29-08-2005 22:58 quote
Yea SD1 sounds good alright. I would probably get the SD1 over a Tyros if I had to buy an aranger NOW. But as the Tyros2 is coming, it will kick all ass and bury Ketron & other cheap imitators for good
Skype: hkahkola
Author RE: Tyros vs Ketron
thewolf
Member

VIP-Member

Posts: 157
Location: Finland
Joined: 19.08.05
Posted on 29-08-2005 23:02 quote
..and besides, Ketron is Italian. I hate those macaroni bastards.
Skype: hkahkola
Author RE: Tyros vs Ketron
Da Fletch
Member

VIP-Member

Posts: 362
Location: Somewhere in Europe ;-)
Joined: 26.08.05
Posted on 29-08-2005 23:09 quote
I have the T1 since it came out. I think the sounds are still very good, clean and polished
but they miss that edgy and unpolished sound like the SD1 has.
Let's hope our dreams will come thrue with the T2....

Author RE: Tyros vs Ketron
Da Fletch
Member

VIP-Member

Posts: 362
Location: Somewhere in Europe ;-)
Joined: 26.08.05
Posted on 29-08-2005 23:10 quote
Ciaou !
Author RE: Tyros vs Ketron
Dreamer
Member


Posts: 1
Location:
Joined: 10.08.05
Posted on 03-10-2005 11:08 quote
thewolf wrote:
..and besides, Ketron is Italian. I hate those macaroni bastards.


Spaghetti: yum!
Smoked reindeer: bleah!

Andrea
(a "maccheroni" eater)

Oh.. looks like we have an offended italian on our hands

Don't take everything I've written on Tyros2.net too seriously. A lot of discussion there is very informal. I've posted about 160 messages there, most of which have been written under severe frustration as a result of non-stop WAITING for the T2, not to mention the minor influence of alcohol.. (hey we are Finns after all)

"Italians are people too" *grin*

I believe ,the wolf, gave an excellent report, my concerns with cobwebs, i thought was underhand,of course he is in business and wants to make money ,but in all the 4 years + of being a member here i have NEVER seen george or dano stoop to this level, when newbies come to our site and ask where can i get a good deal from someone i can trust? i don,t need to answer it goes without saying.mike

[This message has been edited by nardoni2002 (edited 10-03-2005).]

Yes it's unfortunate this had to come out like this. And involve me also.. Probably right now cobwebs thinks he should have never had me over there, much less tell me himself that he uses that name on the forums. Maybe he just forgot what he had posted in July?

Oh well. What goes around, comes around.

But thanks for this Dreamer. I'm a 32-year old fart already, past my prime, so your comment was in fact a compliment to me

Again, sorry about the insult on your national pride though. I've been to Milan, and found italians to be nice (but a little crazy) people. You gotta learn how to park those cars without bumping into 5 others while doing it :P