Hi all!

I am about to start a home recording studio and need a mixer and an audio interface in order to get started. I have thought about different combinations and since I am on a budget I have to try get the price tag low but spend in quality gear.

I thought about buying the Mackie Onyx 1640 mixer with optional firewire card and get 16 channels at 96KHz/24-bit, but since you cannot record in surround sound in an easy way with it and because of its strange direct output connectors I chose to leave that alternative.

Then I got a nice suggestion of buying the digital mixer Tascam DM24 that now has fallen in price and use the 24 ins/outs optional audio interface with it to get 14 channels at 96KHz/24-bit. But when I started thinking about this alternative I was not sure about the quality I'll get, mostly because of the PC drivers and latency.

That left me focusing on a good audio interface with low latency, like the RME Fireface 800 and buying a quiet mixer to use with it. I have thought about the Behringer MX9000 analog mixer because of its capabilities feature wise(24 inputs, 8 buses duplicated, 24 direct outs) however I'm not sure about its sound quality. I have bad experiences with Behringer and I heard a guy that told me to go Mackie if I go for something like the RME Fireface 800.

So I'm now thinking about the Mackie 1604-VLZ Pro analog 16 channel mixer and RME Fireface 800 sound card. The Mackie has 4 sub outs and 8 direct outs and microphone amplifiers on every channel, so I should by able to record quite in a flexible way by using the 4 sub outs in combination with the direct outs and be able to record crisp clean and quiet. Recording in surround sound is possible, but I can only use 6 channels on the RME when I do it, because they take up 4 sub outs and 2 direct outs so I have 6 direct outs left for the 5.1 speakers. To be able to record all 8 channels I need to use the main outs as well and that is extra work. This is why I am not quite sure about the Mackie yet.

Do you think I am going in the right direction? Please help me decide.

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 03-07-2005).]

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 03-07-2005).]

If you want a good interface, you should choose Motu. I've been using a Motu 2408 and maybe it would be a good choice for you.

With this interface you have 3 banks of 8 channels wich you can individually set to Analog (only on the first bank), TDIF or ADAT.

Then you would only need a digital mixer with ADAT or TDIF in order to get 24 in/out to your computer!

Luis Santos

Hi Yamaha Andy,

I use the Tascam dm24 with the dm24 firewire 24 i/o. You are right, the price has fallen by about half since I bought mine 2 1/2 years ago. Although the mixer has be replaced by the DM32, IT is a tremendous mixer with great sound and features. I have used Tascam equipment for many years and other than Tascam's lame support nowadays, the mixer is tough to beat. Just ten years ago a mixer of this quality would probably have cost $100K. IT works great with Sonar.

The learning curve is kind of steep, but what a sound and a delight to ues if you can live without 96K sampling. The Tascam firewire card does not currently support 96k but it does support 48k 24 bit and, the card is less than 400 bucks.

If you want a meter bridge for the DM24, they are (were) very hard to find. It took me over a year to find the MU24 bridge but it does seem Tascam has released quite a few of them lately.

Anyway here is are a couple links address: http://www.vaporpark.com/invboard/index.php?s=6209068890afdac9459ce1e0747bffb3&

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/fg=41/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/630532/

http://www.tascam.com/Products/IF-FW_DM.html[/URL]

Regards,

Danny

[This message has been edited by pianodano (edited 03-08-2005).]

[This message has been edited by pianodano (edited 03-08-2005).]

Thanks fot the suggestion Luis Santos. I read about it but because of its 12 channel @ 96KHz I have to think about it because it's really not 24 channels I get.



Hi pianodano!

Thanks for the great information! Too bad, I can really not live without 96K sampling. I read the manual and it was also very clearly stated there that it doesn't support 96KHz recording. I was not aware of this so this was great information for me!

The manual says:
"With two Tascam DM24 consoles you have the ability to run a 24-track, 24-bit 96 kHz 5.1 automated mixing environment".

This means it is able to run ONLY 12 tracks @ 96 KHz on one unit, so in that sense it is a Tascam DM12 digital mixer. In my opinion this is extreme misguidance, I go: What else should I split in half to be able to know what it truly gives?

Check out the ALESIS FIrewire mixers, from 8 to 16 channels http://www.alesis.com/products/new_products/index.html#MultiMix

.....less than half price than the Mackie no drivers to install....is NEW.

------------------
mdorantes

Thanks for the suggestion. The following makes these mixers not an alternative for me:

-24-bit, 44.1/48 kHz operation with high-end A/D and D/A conversion through integrated FireWire audio interface using next-generation Dice II FireWire chip

I need 96KHz sample rate.

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 03-08-2005).]

I'm beginning to feel more and more tempted to go with the following combination:

Behringer MX9000
RME Fireface 800

What do you think about that?

It gives me surround sound recording capabilities, it gives me 24 direct outs and 8 sub-groups. Hopefully it also gives me good sound quality... I have to think about this a little more before I buy.

So I finally made a decision. I don't want to spend much more than 2000 euro for the mixer and audio interface. This in combination with Tascams limitation of 48 KHz sample rate made me decide to go for an analog mixer that gives me surround recording capabilities as well as little noise in the signal. At the same time I realised I want quality PC drivers for the audio interface.

Therefor my final decision was:

Mixer:
Mackie 1604-VLZ Pro

Audio interface:
RME Fireface 800

I would have chosen the Yamaha MG series analog mixers but because of the lack of direct outs I chose not to. I chose to not go for the Behringer MX9000 either because I felt Mackie gives me better recording quality and overall quality and I have 8 direct outs on the Mackie mixer plus inserts on every channel and Extended Dynamic Range premium studio-grade mic preamps on every channel which I figured gives me even more than the Behringer MX9000 gives me. I feel that this is the best choice for me on this kind of a budget. It is also very handy at 20 lbs and has a well made manual! If I am very satisified with this setup and need to expand in the future I can duplicate the setup. I also thought that in the future when I want to go digital all the way, this mixer will be great for live usage when I want great quality sound live while the RME Fireface boards can be used together with a 32 channel digital mixer to get 192KHz/24-bit all the way.

Thank you all for helping me with this decision!

Best regards,
YamahaAndy

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 03-08-2005).]

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 03-08-2005).]

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 03-08-2005).]

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 03-08-2005).]

Have you looked into Yamaha 01V96? I am using this with an Echo Gina 24 audio card. I have the card connected via ADAT interface to 01V96 so I get 8 channels of digital channels plus 8 analog channels going to the mixer. The price for both would be around $2000 in the US.

YamahaAndy,

With the interface I mentioned, MOTU 2408 you get exactly 24 channels! not 12...

But, as I said, you have got to use a digital mixer with ADAT or TDIF!

I have worked with another interfaces and I believe this is the most versatile option. And of course, with the quality of MOTU!

Check this link: http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/2408/body.html/en


Luis Santos

Thank you for helping me in the final decision making.

So I was looking at both your recommendations and they were both good alternatives. Yamaha is Yamaha, it's really sweet! However, to go with the Yamaha I would have to choose a more cheap sound card and I think that would be a mistake. I have compared the MOTU and the RME and believe that the RME is a little better overall. But I'm sure it's not a big difference. What I like about RME is their focus on drivers, I also read the manual which seemed to be very well written. I had a hard time founding a manual for the MOTU.

Today was a "take it easy" day for me. I had to think over my decision of going analog, just for a last time. But I think I have got a decent price for the recording platform, I am buying stuff that has got good reviews, I know what I will get because I have studied the manuals in detail and compared it with others. I have also noticed that I have to spend more money on the sound card, not the other way around. I have also figured out that the mic pre-amps in the Mackie will be very useful for me in this context and I think I will get a better result going with a good analog mixer and a good audio interface instead of a medium audio interface and a great mixer, partly because the mixing will be done in the computer, I won't do any mixdown back from the computer. So the only noise that will be introduced in the signal path, expecially on the mic channels, is the mixer and the Mackie should be quiet enough even though it's analog. But don't make any mistakes, I would have gone digital this time if I would have had a better income. I would have chosen a digital mixer and two firefaces then. But this time around I just want to get creative, use quality products that fulfill my needs and get things done.

So tomorrow I will order it all and start focusing on the computer and the studio itself. I will also start playing in a band soon, so I just need to let things happen now.
If buying these units is a bad choice, I won't take it that seriously. I'm new to hard disk recording and studio recording, so in that case I have to see it as a chance of learning stuff on a deeper level. Since I am both a keyboardist and a guitarist and will be doing live playing also, I think the RME Fireface and the Mackie will both be very useful. I can use the Fireface for virtual instruments at high sound quality/low latency and the Mackie as a guitar + keyboard + vocals mixer. I know the mixer and the audio interface will be good enough and I think the price tag is good. So this buy will be totally worth it!

When I get the gear I will tell you how I feel about this purchase. Thanks again guys for helping me out. I really appreciated it!

Best regards,
YamahaAndy

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 03-09-2005).]

Today I ordered the RME Fireface 800 audio interface and the Mackie 1604VLZ-PRO analog mixer and the Edirol UM-880 8*8 MIDI interface. For me this means I will soon be able to setup a hard disk recording environment and start making music.

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 03-10-2005).]

Cool! if you are planning to do all the effect processing on your computer then this should be a great setup.

I also have the Edirol UM-880 on order, I should get it next week sometime.

Yes I will mix in the computer.
So you will also buy the Edirol UM-880, cool!

This evening I made a map of my upcoming home studio recording project:




Best regards,
YamahaAndy

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 03-10-2005).]

My next purchase will be an additional graphic card and 2 19" flat screens. The computer interface is crucial in this kind of a setup.

BTW, as you can see I have plenty of space for additional keyboards in the back!

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 03-10-2005).]