Pro,
as I said the Tyros was mounted on a tier directly below a 9000 pro, so I took a chance to play that too. I can't explain well the difference, but the piano on the Tyros had more presence, yet at the same time was more mellow. To make an example, it was like comparing a Bosendorfer with a Yamaha. I don't know if they used the same multi-sample, but in this case this means that the Tyros has better converters or better filters or better whatever - fact is I liked the Tyros piano more.

I also went to the stores expecting to find Genesys (Tyros will not be available in the US for a while), but the two GEM dealers told me that they are not planning to carry it (as there is no demand for it - apparently I was the first person who asked them for it).

Instead I found a KN7000. I am not going to post a long review here - this would only promote the opinion prevailing on the Technics discussion pages that the people in this forum are anti-Technics.

I should say that the individual sounds are very clean. However, the styles are too organy for my liking. I could see how this keyboard would suit some people, but for my music the stock styles do not work. The other problem for me - I usually play with the left hand sounds (like bright piano) in pianist left-hand mode (three notes trigger a chord, while one or two notes played only play the LH sound) - this works really well on my G1000. In Technics, once you turn on the arranger chord, the left hand sound stops playing, or so the salesman assured me. By the sounds of it, the Technics is designed as a replacement for the accordion. The shiny buttons look chintzy, and for all its heft, to me the keyboard felt rather plastic-y (Not that I am against plastic, but to me it did not have a feel of sturdiness I'd associate with metal).

The other note - the display of the 7000 looks spectacular. Unfortunately, it does not seem to convey any more information that did the smaller display of the 6000, or then the monochrome displays of the many competitors do. The bottom portion, which displays mixer bars in default mode, disappears during various operations, like sound, style, mode selections, and you are still limited to multiple pages of only TEN entries each. Of course the graphic icons with instrument pictures look great, especially in color, but they add little to the usability of the instrument. The whole display business looks gimmicky - this feeling was exemplified when the salesman turned on the dedicated DEMO button and the keyboard started playing pre-recorded music along with animated movie playing on screen - I wonder how much of the instrument ROM is taken up by this sales demo.

Regards,
Alex

Sorry dreamer no offence to your opinion. But it really makes me laugh when someone say that he went a day in a shope and played a keyboard and pass a judjment or compare it with another. I have had the Genesys over 3 weeks now, I have had a WK4 before that and to your surprise I am still learning about what the keyboard can do.
you said you heard the voices of both, I spent a whole day listining to voices on my Genesys and believe me I didn't listen to 1/3 of them, so how can you judge a book by the cover. For example the best Voices are from Page 5 onwords, I bet you even peeped in to adjust the reverbs on it?? What I am trying to say is that it is nice to go and listen to a keyboard but please don't try to compare because if you don't know how to set a keyboard up it is usless passing your judgment. Unfortunatley in the US this keyboard is not popular, but let me tell you if you hear the MIDI FILES and styles that GEM produces in conjunction with TUNE 1000 you will be more than impressed I will prove to you all when I have the time and put some recordings on CD for you all to hear and then judge upon what you hear. No hard feelings but for me this thing is all bull, I am not saying one or the other is better, but you have to really know a keyboard to get the best out of it.

Tony

Tony,
While it is true that one has to really know a keyboard to get the best from it. I think one can go into a shop and "A-B' keyboards and get a feel fairly quickly as to whether they like it or not. At least I can and I suspect alot of others can as well. Comparing one piano to another as they are both setup supposedly optimum for best sound from the factory is a fair comparison. What I think you are saying though is if one has a board for awhile they can dial in a sound to their liking, which I agree with.
Terry

Ziggy. I know where your coming from BUT i do not agree with you in some of what your saying.. Firstly, let me say that I certainly DO agree with you when you said that GEM produce Midi Files/Songs better than anyone else... Ive got both the WX2 and WK6 at hand when wanting to use it for a good Karoake session, no other keyboard can play songs the way that GEM can do it, i just dont know how they do it because if you load up a standard midi file on the GEM, it sounds poor at first, but load up a GEM specific song, it sounds like the record.. amazing... Ive also got some Ketron specific songs for my X1, and although they also sound amazing, i still think GEM just do it that little better...

But onto where i do not agree with you.. If a person goes into a keyboard shop and they try out 2 keyboards in a similar price range (as in this case the Tyros and Genesys), they ARE judging it fairly because that person is dedicating a small amount of time on both units... so first impressions DO definately count. Its also obvious that if you spend 3 weeks on the Genesys im sure you can make it sound amazing using all its tweaks.. Same was with my X1 when i bought it, for about a couple of weeks i was using it without any effects until i found the options to boost it up.. then it just sounded so much better, especially when finally finding sounds in later banks not obvious at first... so when judging new kbs, i think there is a balanced judgement.. its only when you look at one of them deeper than the other that the judgements can be distorted...

Ziggy is correct in the aspect that people who have explored the GEM have discovered that the best voices start at page 5. So if Dreamer didn't explore these voices, he might have missed a lot.

I'm glad to hear that the GEM has so many pluses. Maybe they will make a portable version that us weaklings would be interested in.

Beakybird

Hi Danny, that is what I meant Qoute "FIRST IMPRESSIONS" you can't judge by first impression, remember you are buying something that probably last in your hands over 3 years. You understand me better when I say that with Gem keyboards if you know how to set the Reverbs and all the other settings you can make it sound 10x greater, that is why I said don't judge by listining for a few hours. And the factory setups are not always the best !!! I myself have changed all the Styles setups on my WK4 and they sound 10x better then they where before.
So as always it always boils up to how impressed you where those couple of hours, but you will be judging something with what somebody wanted you to listen to and not the global ability of a keyboard.
Remember when you are playing live the more features you have at hand the more Pro you are and the more flexibility you have the better performer you become. So don't judge by the looks and if a button lights uo or if it is a touch screen. Jugde bye firstly the sound and second in my list is the flexibilety to set things up on a keyboard.
One example I've heard here is about the REAL PIANO. if he played it with the wrong REVERBS of course it sounded not so good because that is what is all about, and that is REVERBS if not used wright the you wont hear the ATMOST of it. One last thing I suggest is that when you go to listen to Genesys tell the SALES Person to let you hear the MIDI SONGS that comes with the keyboard and there you will listen to what Genesys can really do, because they use the REVERBS to the atmost. and I tell you judge on that on on just you playing the keyboard.

[This message has been edited by ziggy (edited 10-23-2002).]

Okay,
let me point out a few things:
- I already own an SD1, a VA7, an XV 3080, an Akai 2800 and an Ensoniq ASR 10r (for what it's worth); besides, I don't sing at all, so when I stepped inside the shop basically I was saying to myself: "Let me see if I can find some new, interesting sounds to use in one of my next songs".
Well, I didn't!
What I have found is that the Tyros has a better sound quality (it's clean, and some of the sounds, like the electric pianos, are really sparkling, but the saxophones (and I might add also the trumpet, the flugelhorn and the trombone) were really too thin to be of any use to me: if I were to record a big band arrangement with these instruments, nobody would think "Wow, it sounds like the real thing!"
But the fact that some sounds are weak does not subtract from the overall sound quality, which is very good. For example, I have seen that Terry plays a lot of New Age music; well, I think that he will love the Tyros, because the sound is clean, sometimes even delicate and thus is perfect for New Age textures.
Always speaking of the Tyros, I think that the acoustic piano is good; Roel is right, however, when it points out to the lack of the dinamic response, but that could depend from the keybed: the Tyros keys have more or less the same feel as the PSR 2000 (Scott often refers to them as "flimsy") and it's really difficult to play a good piano from a flimsy keyboard. The sound, however, at least to me, is good; when I came back home I played the VA7 and I realized that they have a lot in common, so, if someone wants to know how the Tyros acoustic piano sounds, can try a VA7 and have a rough idea.
Now speaking of the Genesys: I have already tried to say, in a kind manner, that I did not like its looks; personally I could add that the fact that GEM is planning to release a version without speakers is a proof that they realized to have made a mistake. However, I could have lived with a poor design (I don't like much my VA7 or my SD1 either, design-wise), but then, coming to the styles, they did not add absolutely anything to what I already own and, speaking finally of the sounds, when I first heard the demo's on the GEM website, I thought that there was way too much reverb and I asked to myself "Why? What are they trying to mask?". Finally, when I played the keyboard, I did not in any way associate the overall sound with terms like "sparkling", "lush", etc. I have admitted that some sounds are really good, like the saxophones or the acoustic bass, but the overall quality of the sound did not convince me. Of course, this does not mean much, because I also think that my SD1 does not sound as clean as my VA7, but when I had to choose a sound for the sax solo in "Sweet Home Chicago" I did use the SD1, because the sound, even if it's not "clean", had other qualities, that were necessary for that song.
I even wrote that I would like to use the Genesys to record a jazz number, with just saxophones, acoustic bass and drums; too bad that I could not use the piano, because to my ears it was too metallic and that's a pity, considering that GEM makes excellent digital pianos.
Maybe, if I could borrow or even rent a Genesys and take it home for one week and record a song or two, MAYBE I would end up buying one, if I had no other keyboards or modules,
BUT...
since I had to pay more than 2500 dollars to do that and see IF I change my mind, then my answer is "No, thanks: I can think of many better ways to spend my money".
I hope I have been clear enough.



[This message has been edited by Dreamer (edited 10-24-2002).]

Dreamer don't think I am getting at you cause I'm not, but what I wanted to point out about Genesys is that if you don't know how to set it up it doesen't sound that good.

May I ask you some questions.
1. you said you like Sequencing!! did you hear any of the Songs that came with the keyboard?? if not I advice you to go and listen so you will see what a difference a Reverb does to a Voice.
2. Have you heard the keyboards on an ampliefied PA??? and if so was it of high Quality like say EV??

I am asking you all this cause it is differnet hearing a keyboard on it's speaker, to an Ampliefied sound.

I'm not telling you that tyros is not better in sound and sharpness, but my point is that I don't rely on demos, I rely on the result I get when I am performing live, and for studio reasons I beleive that Genesys is a winner too the edithing you have on Genesys wont be found on any other keyboard. Even though I bet you use a PC based sequencer.

What I hate is that because a brand is not that popular sort of everyone talks about Tyros as if this was something fallen out oh heaveen, I never did like Yamaha myself but that is just my taste.
Still I don't agree with you about the Grand Piano, in my opinion it sounds great, always if you use the wright reverbs with it. when you own a keyboard you will know the goods and the not so goods of it and that is why I made an ENPHASY on the fact that if you don't use the REVERBS correctly the end result won't be that good.

Tony

Tony,
You're debating the sound issue again.....what you hear in the Genesys sound tweeked or not with extra reverbs....may not be the same sound Andrea hears and likes.

I personally favor the Yamaha pianos to my ears, you like Genesys....that's ok. Andrea is just giving his opinion about the sounds one to the other and it is right, because that is what he hears.

IMO arrangers sounds should not have to be taken home and tweeked for a month to get them to sound 10x's better. I think if the board doesn't sound good out of the box....I'll pass on it. If I wanted to tweek, I'd buy another Motif or Triton workstation to tweek.

I don't think any of us, myself included think the Tyros "just fell from heaven" it's just a new board with some very cool new features. If you're a Yamaha fan, that's exciting, if you're not then it's a whole lot of talk over not too much. I already know it has some short comings, like the o/s upgrading which Yammy had their heads in their a**&^ when designing this.

EVERY board has things that we will like and not like. To me the basic thing we buy a board for is what it sounds like to us, then we have to weigh whether the sounds make up for the shortcomings.
jam on,
Terry

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 10-24-2002).]