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#117351 - 08/15/03 03:03 PM Re: Two new songs with the Tyros
Will Stewart Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/01
Posts: 42
Loc: Scotland
Andrea

Debt repaid in full!!
I was knocked out by your first version of Europa and thought you might overdo things a bit trying to emulate the Santana version but am pleased to say that your latest version is every bit as good as the first.
I'm not a regular on this forum so I don't know if you play or played guitar also, but you have got all the nuances of a top guitarist spot on.

I've heard quite a few different Tyros songs from various sources and haven't been overly impressed with them but these recent songs from you make the voices (especially the guitars) sound so realistic I may just be tempted to upgrade.

As for the pitch bend question I think Scott is probably on the right track.

Its been a pleasure listening to your music and look forward to that George Benson number soon.

Will
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Regards

Will

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#117352 - 08/15/03 05:22 PM Re: Two new songs with the Tyros
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Andrea,

Please put the song "Summertime In Venice" on your upcoming recording list.
I would love to hear your Tyros version of it.

carry on

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#117353 - 08/15/03 07:47 PM Re: Two new songs with the Tyros
Dreamer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
Don,
I forgot to thank you: sorry!

Denny,
when I come to Grand Prairie I will bring you a CD with all my songs.

Scott, thank you and...very interesting theory!

Will, thank you and...yes, in my other life I used to be a guitar player (but haven't touched a guitar in years...)

Don, you make me feel ashamed: I am not sure I know this song... :-((
_________________________
Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.

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#117354 - 08/15/03 08:08 PM Re: Two new songs with the Tyros
sk880user Offline
Member

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 1255
Loc: United States
Dreamer, I listend to them and I listened again to the older version of Europa.

Here is my vote:

I liked Europa more the Europa2.

In fact, I liked Europa the best in all of the collection. It felt like a true guitarist is playing solo especially during filling between phrases. I enjoyed the nice chords and I do not mind learning them. I enjoyed the ballad style that was chosen.

Thanks for sharing

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#117355 - 08/15/03 08:10 PM Re: Two new songs with the Tyros
Dreamer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
SK880,
thank you.
_________________________
Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.

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#117356 - 08/16/03 12:21 AM Re: Two new songs with the Tyros
Dreamer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
SK880 user,
sorry but I am not sure I have understood you correctly: would you like to know the chords of Europa, by any chance?
Basically it's always the same progression, which goes Fm7-Bb7-Ebmaj7-Abmaj7-Fm-G7-Cm
The third time the final Cm becomes a Cmaj.
So maybe the reason you like this song so much is because -basically- is in a minor tonality.
_________________________
Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.

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#117357 - 08/16/03 05:12 AM Re: Two new songs with the Tyros
SD_FAN Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 236
Loc: São Paulo, SP / Brazil
Oi Andrea.

Two more great, great renditions.

Bravo!!!
Parabéns.
Armando
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Armando

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#117358 - 08/16/03 05:51 AM Re: Two new songs with the Tyros
Dreamer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
Obrigado, amigo.
_________________________
Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.

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#117359 - 08/16/03 06:00 AM Re: Two new songs with the Tyros
sk880user Offline
Member

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 1255
Loc: United States
Dreamer, you are correct. I am obsessed with minor.

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#117360 - 08/16/03 11:26 PM Re: Two new songs with the Tyros
Dreamer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
OK, I guess that enough replies came in, so it's time to answer the question: "Did I use the pitch bend wheel on Europa 2?"
The correct answer is "No, I didn't" (and I swear it!).
On this song, like in the other ones where I use a guitar sound, the only modulation I have applied is the aftertouch. On my now gone VA7 I used to route the aftertouch to control the pitch (but just a little, because if the effect is overdone tends to sound grotesque, like happens with too much modulation wheel); on the Tyros, however, I've found that the aftertouch adds by default a little vibrato (like Mike pointed out analyzing the two samples of jazz guitar, with and without vibrato: so the difference was in the aftertouch applied, Mike); it's also possible, like Scott pointed out, that depending on the lenght or strength with which you play the note, the Tyros sounds different, but I cannot confirm this, because haven't had enough time to analyze the keyboard so much in depth. So, I just did with the aftertouch what I deemed necessary to achieve a good sound, at least to my ears.
Other than that, I used two other techniques to emulate the sound of a guitar player: the use of "grace notes" (notes added before or after the one you want to play actually) and a technique that guitar players call "slide" or "slur". Musicians like Wes Montgomery or George Benson use this technique all the time: they play a note and then let the finger "slide down" a semitone. On a keyboard this can achieved only from a black key to a white one; for example, if you want to hit a B, you hit first a Bb and then let the finger "slide" down to the right, landing on the B.

Now, why didn't I use the modulation wheel?
Well, for different reasons: the first one is that if I am playing a song with many chord changes I just don't have the time to do that; this is not the case of a song like "Europa", but -still- if I am concentrated on playing a solo line, having to think of the modulation wheel as well tends to reduce my concentration and my playing tends to sound more mechanic. Moreover, like I said, with the modulation wheel it's very easy to overdo and I did not want to sound like an hawaiian guitar!
Finally, I think that I was able to achieve the desired sound with just the aftertouch and the other techniques mentioned, so I really didn't feel the need to use other devices.
I have used the modulation wheel extensively only once: to record a Deep Purple song called "Smoke on the water" and have to say that it worked great but....I doubt that you will ever see that song on my website!
That's all, folks!
_________________________
Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.

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