Spalding is close to being right as Ohrenartz is too.

Yamaha uses layered tones to make up most of their better sounds...these are not velocity switched to the point that only one voice polyphony is used at any particular time...Matter of fact most are 2 or 3 partials[tones] at a time..
The Yamaha 128 polyphony is a false assurance that you will not get drop outs...Drop outs are plentiful on the Yamaha..I would venture to say the Korg's 62 with it's allocation and usually no more than 2 partials at any given time are equal to the Yamaha's 128[using often 4 partials]..
I think Korg has priority set up better than the Yamahas also..
Both Korg and Yamaha can take a lesson from Roland on how to get the most out of polyphony limits..

BTW..when it comes to polyphony,the big test is how the unit handles playing over a voice heavy sequence..This is when you use voices up,,there is no getting away from it..Allocation is based on priority and here it will show...again Roland leads the way..

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 10-15-2005).]

I can't explain the polyphony issue any better than it's already been said here.

What I can tell you is that when I had the PSR2000, with 64 notes of polyphony, and played the same pieces on it that I played on my PA80, with 62 notes of polyphony, in comparison, I often noticed dropouts on the 2k but not the PA80.

I often used the exact same styles, as I converted and interchanged my favorites from both boards.

One of my chief complaints with the original Motif classic ( also a Yamaha board with 64 notes of poly ) was a noticeable dropout when I played over sequences. It was more than adequate however, when I played it as a solo instrument.

And yes, I still experience the occasional dropout when playing over a sequence on the ES, and it's 128 notes of polyphony. It isn't nearly as often as when I had the "classic" though. I have rarely had this experience with my PA80 btw.

AJ

ps i bought my new PA1X for half the price of a new Tyros 2

On the Yamaha 3k I also have noticed some note drop off on certain styles, such as some converted G70 ones which BTw are fantastc but obviously are made for & sound best in a G70.....

Hi All,

Thanks for all the great replies. I'll try to answer some of the questions that popped up:

I didn't get an opportunity to put the Roland to the test unfortunately. It would have been interesting to pitch all three together and see how they faired.

With regard to the 76 key issue, yes it factors into my final choice but it wasn't relevant for the purposes of comparing the Tyros 2 and the PA1X as both are 61 key. Historically I've had to live with 61 keys as bigger keyboards have always been in short supply and this would seriously narrow down my choice. I'd rather concentrate on the overall sound and functionality than to buy a "second rate" 76 note board just because it has more keys. I'm not saying that using octave shifts and sound edits doesn't bug the life out of me but at the end of the day nobody can physically hear how many notes are on my keyboard. For me the sound is more important than the number of keys as I like to think I'm musically skilled enough to "work" around a smaller board. Fortunately with the Korg I have the choice of the Pro should I choose this option.

I didn't experience any problems with polyphony on the Korg. I didn't perform any specific tests but I did try to create drop out situations by layering several sounds over detailed backings and playing some full chords up top. As I said - didn't notice any drop outs. I must admit to being a little bit skeptical about bare statistics these days as my Technics KN7K is 128 note polyphony and I can get it to drop out easily. I guess until someone comes out with a 512 note poly board we'll always be bantering this poly thing around (and even then someone will probably come up with a killer arrangement that causes drop outs).

The comments about the endings were interesting as there were a couple of occasions that I thought that the intro's, ending's or fills didn't quite fit with the overall style on the Korg. It didn't bother me a great deal but it was there just the same. In relation to the short endings I'm happy to use the fade out or play out my own ending if a short one is required. I guess this comes down to personal opinion as I'm sure that someone else would say they wanted longer endings if Korg produced shorter ones

All of the feedback was much appreciated as in one way or another it's all helping towards making my final decision. I'm hoping to make up my mind sometime soon but I guess it all hinges on whether I need to have another play of a few more great machines

David.

Just to contribute my $0.02 to the polyphony discussion:

There are indeed better and worse ways of handling polyphony. Roland and Korg are the better systems; Yamaha is the worse - it has been correctly said that its better sounds use up 4 notes of polyphony (and can use up to 8) per note played. Roland and Korg use max 2. There also seems to be a different way of allocating the dropouts - Korg and Roland do a good job dropping out the notes which are supposed to be quietest - not sure that Yamaha does the same thing. In any case, I know that in Tyros dropouts do happen, especially if you use better quality voices (though would not be a problem if all you were doing was playing sequences with the XG tones).

Nonetheless, even in the better systems, such as Roland and Yamaha use, the laws of arithmetics to apply, and with my G1000, which handles polyphony well, on par with the Korg, dropouts do indeed occur - I am sure that with the 128 poly G70 or even VA7/76 they would not be a problem. However, 64 note polyphony (and even more so, 62 notes of Korg) are not sufficient for a high-end instrument, IMHO. Even if 62 notes of Korg may be as good or better than 128 notes of Yamaha, it is simply NOT ENOUGH. Why should I pay well over $3000 and worry about when the note dropouts will occur? Would you buy a car and drive it knowing that its engine is going to briefly shut down, causing you to lose power on the freeway (my apologies to all Toyota Prius owners)? In the grand scheme of things it is not a big thing, but if you are not bothered by the possibility of this occuring, I am surprised.

The caveat is: the occurrence of not dropouts depends on your style of playing and voice arrangements you use. To me it usually happens when I am playing high-energy dance sets with the people stomping on the dance floor, usually about 150 bpm, with solo voices layering brass and sax, and high-quality piano set up for the left hand, playing arranger styles in intelligent (3+ notes set the chord) mode. Not everyone plays the same way, so for them the note dropouts may not be an issue.

However, for Korg, with its dual sequencers, that alone takes up 32 notes, if they use high-quality voices, or try to sing on top of that, either the note dropouts will occur or 2+2 is not equal 4.

Now, it is all a matter of features vs. price. If Spalding can share with us where we can buy a PA1X for half price of a Tyros, that may indeed be of interest to me.

Regards,
Alex

One of the cheapest places in the u.k. to buy a korg pa1x (new or used) both with guarantee and delivery is 'Whitley Bay Home Organ centre'.0191-2571-666.Ask for Edna, and prepare to haggle.
Hi-Tech Direct, 57 Harpur St.Bedford.01234-212588.Mob 07957-122650.
Richard. Or Peterborough Organ Centre 01733-313598 also stocks korg keyboards.
Musicland of Bromley (S.E.London) 0208-698-7300.ask for David.

I haggled like there was no tommorrow. Youi'll need to do the same!!

or go to synthplanet.com and order one for £1700 no haggling but £1000 cheaper tahn a new Tyros 2

good point :-)

Cheers.

With multiple endings ..there should be no reason not to have both..Most manufacturers do this currently..