Correction

First example
G4
F4
E4
D4
C3
B3
A3.......... of course

ok, excuse

First
G4
F4
E4
D4
C4
B3
A3

Second
C4
B3
A3
G3
F3
E3
D3

Frank,
I have known Scott in person and I don't think that he is arrogant and combative. Scott is simply a very precise person (someone would say "picky") that cannot stand things that, in his own opinion, are "wrong", especially from a musical point of view. Please, consider that music is really the focus of his life and that, more than an arranger player, he is first and foremost a piano player. Maybe he is just fighting an impossibile battle, but he is trying to have inside an arranger keyboard the same degree of flexibility and musical perfection that he can have inside an acoustic piano.
I too sometimes have problems following what he writes, but at the end have to agree that he is right. People like me, who most often tend to accept things for what they are, will probably never change the world. People like Scott, who sometimes can give on someone else's nerves, are those that in the end will maybe change the world where we live.
Andrea

Attack? Just WHERE was I attacking YOU? No attacks. I was only responding to your statments, clarifying my point of view in a typical 'forum like' approach.



If you yourself play in 'full keyboard' mode and Yamaha's 'full keyboard mode' chord recognition is working well for you, then you definitely have a valid point. But to challenge my point of view based ONLY on conjecture that it "may just apply to many others" is blindly accepting something which could in fact be a chord recognition problem that Yamaha could improve on. Bug or not, at least Yamaha should be made aware of it, and then make their decision after viewing the evidence.



Talking about feeling attacked. Hey, didn't you know I began gigging (with a portable casio) 'in the sandbox'?



It's beginning to sound like you're on Yamaha's payroll now. I agree that some two handed playing styles work on the PSRs when playing in 'split mode', but topic is specifically about 'full keyboard' mode two handed playing.



Arguing? I was just defending & clarifying MY position.




I'm sure your two handed playing technique is great. I never said it wasn't. When I said "I suspect you may not understand because you don't come from a background as a keyboard piano player, but instead a bass player, and that you primarily play the arranger in 'one finger' mode", this was NOT meant an attack on your playing proficiency or musicianship. I was merely trying to figure out WHY you couldn't understand my position about 'full keyboard mode' playing. I'm sure you're an accomplished two handed player, but it was you yourself that said that you play two handed in 'split' mode, NOT 'full keyboard' mode.

I initiated this thread to bring up what I believe are a few problems in the way Yamaha chose to recognize a few chords in'full keyboard' mode and this whole thing somehow turned into me having to defend myself. I really don't think the disagreement is about the issue at hand (full keyboard mode chord recognition), but something else: that Uncle Dave & I just can't get along, no matter how hard we BOTH try.



Well, if that's the case, then we should go back to those toy casio keyboards of yester year, because the residential market seemed to be pleased with them then. The point is that our aim should be to 'encourage' the keyboard manufacters to improve their product. Arrangers have come a long way, but there is always room for improvement. I don't think I was shouting. I had just posted this thread in hopes that Yamaha would at least take at look at the issue.

dont mean to butt in, but i gotta agree with scott here. you guys are jumping all over him, and its all based on reading the wrong tone into his words. i think this is a prime example of the fallicy of the written word; theres always gonna be another way to read into it. anyway, i hope we can all resolve our differences, and i hope yamaha DOES do something about it, because i personally play in full mode quite a lot and i have noticed similiar problems on occasion. thanks! Zack

Andrea, Zack, and others (via private emails): Thanks for your support My intention was not to stir up trouble, but only to bring up a few isolated problems I've encountered with Yamaha's 'full keyboard' mode recognition, which Zack, Two Nuts, and jedi have also experienced. This is not an issue of just trying to get Yamaha to please an esoteric whim of my own, but an attempt to point out an issue that Yamaha should at least take a look at, especially considering that Technics (imho) has been very succesful at implementing 'full keyboard' mode chord recognition. I know many players who find the 'full keyboard mode' works well on the KN keyboards, but I have yet to hear of any PSR players here who think Yamaha's 'full keyboard' mode is working well for them. Ok, some of you might say, if you don't like the way Yamaha does it, buy a Tehcnics keyboard then. Well that's not the point. I want to give Yamaha the chance to at least listen to my point, and then let them decide to (if they choose) to modify their full keyboard mode chord recognition table. Is this not reasonable?

Btw, I just noticed that Uncle Dave suddenly deleted all his postings on this thread.

I think I follow what Scott is saying and I tend to agree with him. I've owned a ton of autoplay boards and, yes, each generation seems to display improvements. However, my single biggest complaint has always centered around the chord recognition problem and the lack of quick, precise tracking of the bass line. Maybe the technology is not there yet, I don't know. Are we asking for too much? I do know that I'm using Band-In-A-Box much more lately to generate backing tracks because of the preciseness of the bass line, seemingly unlimited style selection, and fast chord recognition.
Larry

I was removing fuel from the fire .....
Didn't like the direction this was taking.

Sounds like you're saying that arranger keyboard manufacterers only design arrangers with home (residence) players in mind. Of course arranger keyboard manufactering is a business with the aim of making $, but I believe that the keyboard manufacters (Ketron etc) are truly wanting to improve their products and are turning to us pro players for guidance in this area. You seem to think I'm a (harping?)complainer. I don't just complain, I also offer SOLUTIONS!



Well, the bottom line, even for me as a trained musician, is 'how' it SOUNDS. Irregardless of one's musical training or background, I think it would be quite noticeable to even the untrained ear, that the full kb mode chord voicing recognition problem I outlined, does not sound pleasant or musical.

AS far as the issue of timing resolution , I still believe that 92 ppq is NOT adequately suficient. 192 ppq is better, but just the fact that Yamaha has recently increased the timing resolution to a whopping 1,920 ppq shows that they acknowledge the importance of HIGHER timing resolution accuracy. .

For once I agree with scottyee.
It is audible even for untrained ears.
The untrained ears most likely cannot say what it is, but they can hear the difference.
In fact I have a lot to do with this in a complete different situation.
Playing a jazz guitar together with the pianist of our combo results in same problem caused by wrong chords written.
Which is in fact one of the reasons I prefer playing by ear...