I wonder... was this "bug" fixed in the E-80?

Wow Alex,

I certainly understand what you mean. That would drive me crazy if that happened to me.
I hope that they come up with a fix for you and all the other G-70 owners.

Best of luck to you.

Dennis

http://www.selskabsmusikeren.dk/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=60&topic=1555.msg4717#msg4717

But you should read the whole thread...

Thanks! I have actually read the whole thread...

Waiting for Roland to fix the 'bug' in the G70 is like playing Russian Roulette and/or playing with fire. The bullet in the chamber will eventually find its target and the fire will eventually burn you if you continue to play around with it. So what am I saying? I'm saying is it worth the frustration? I could see where this could be disastrous in a live performance scenario where you want the keyboard to do one thing and it won't allow you and instead reverts back to something you don't want it to do and in the process possibly flubbing up the song and/or the whole performance.

That's not to say that Roland will not fix the 'bug' - but when??? Next year? Two years from now?? Roland has emphatically stated they made the G70 to default to Intelligent Mode when using the OTS feature. It was a design choice. But in doing so they have taken away from the Owner the ability to setup the Keyboard to their own preference and choosing. Roland has essentially tied the hands of Users from doing what they should have the right to do on their $4,000 Keyboard, i.e. "keep the Mode setting to the one they specify" not the one Roland thinks it should default to.

PS: In saying that Roland "fixed" the problem on the E-80 leads me to believe that they 'goofed' on the G70 and they finally corrected that anomaly with the E-80. In other words, if it actually was a good design on the G70 they would have kept it the same way on the E-80. But they didn't...

Best regards,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 08-04-2006).]

The fun fact is....... this is EXACTLY the same behavior on the G1000.

Alex got all bent out of shape over a 'bug'/'feature' that's already in the keyboard he has. Don't know why he still has his G1000 - apparently it's a deal-breaker on the G70, but not on the G1000............

I have just read keybplayers (Mike) message. I am VERY surprised to read that message... Facts are:

1.
The keyboard mode is not saved, when shifting OTS registrations on the G-70. This is not a bug. It is a design decision from Rolands R&D team. It is common knowledge that the G-70 does not save the keyboard mode in the OTS registrations. It is even desribed in the manual.

2.
The G-1000 works BTW just the same way as the G-70. On the G-1000 you can't save the keyboard mode either.

3.
The E-80 works in another way. Rolands R&D team has chosen to design the OTS concept otherwise on the E-80.

The above are the facts!

Now, what surprises me is that Alex has turned this into the most important thing on the G-70?! The G-70 beats the G-1000 on literally hundreds of features, but this is completely forgotten in this case!? Furthermore, this is NOT A BUG, so don't call it a bug

Reading the threads on this issue might lead you to think that everyone thinks that this is a great problem. I will just add that this is not in any way a problem to me. Like most G-70 owners I owned a G-1000 before, so I can't miss something that I never had before.

Nevertheless I agree that the OTS concept on the E-80 is smarter than on the G-70. But if this is such an important issue, then buy a E-80 instead In the meantime we have kindly asked Roland to implement "save keyboard mode in OTS" in a future OS update. Let's hope that they will listen to this

[This message has been edited by weissefar (edited 08-04-2006).]

Guys,

I am trying to be civil and polite, even though this issue and the response of some of the Roland apologists are beginning to annoy me a little. I am yet to hear back from Roland support officially, and like I said, their response will determine whether I keep my G70. I am hoping that they will acknowledge my concern and promise some sort of a fix (this could be wishful thinking, but I am still harboring some hope).

Diki, comparing the OTS behavior in G70 and G1000 is like comparing apples and oranges, or as they say in Russian, a ***** and a finger. Why don't you compare it with a $99 Casio which also forces you to use single-finger chords? On the G1000 the OTS was a single non-programmable setting, for only built-in styles. The G70 has a set of programmable OTS settings, which, if they had worked according to the manual, would address my main concern about the G70, i.e. the ability to change solo voices for a style when you have no user performance memory configured, especially as these are supposed to work not only for the preset, but also for the custom styles. I had written to Roland several times over the last 8 years (since getting my G1000) and asking them for this feature, especially since the major competitors have some facilities for quick recall of the solo voices. In truth, while I like the improvements in sound over the G1000, and some of the other features, programmable OTS memories was the main reason I had purchased this keyboard.

While I don't feel I have to explain to anyone why I am keeping the keyboards I am keeping, I will answer your question. At this point I am not sure that I want to keep the G70, especially if in the areas of my concern it falls short.

This may not be an issue for other people, although judging by the posts on the Danish G70 forum, there is quite a number of people concerned with the mis-behavior of the OTSes. The fact that Roland has changed this behavior on the E80 proves that they themselves see it as needing improvement.

For me an instrument is a tool to do what I need to do. I don't feel any more loyalty to any particular manufacturer than they feel towards me (and I am yet to see how supportive Roland will be of my concerns).

Regards,
Alex

The manual lists exactly which parameters are saved (and recalled). I have no problem with that. My concern is that the chord recognition mode is not listed as saved/recalled, but is forced on me anyway.



See my reply above.



I am also asking Roland to implement this feature in the future OS update, since without it I can not use the G70, and instead will use the G1000 which is all set up for a performance. However, as I said before, I call them as I see them. To me a bug is a bug. I believe I explained myself quite sufficiently in the previous posts. As a software engineer, I believe I am quialified to make a judgement on what to call a bug, and what to call an enhancement request. This problem is obviously the former.

I also said a number of times, that it may not be an issue for many people, particularly those who like to play Intelligent (fingered) chords on their arranger. For me it is a big deal, as are the polyphony and having the 76 keys, which I have mentioned in this forum in many posts.

Why I don't buy a E80? because I can not carry that much weight. In fact Roland themselves position the E80 as a keyboard for home, and the G70 for people playing professionaly. I also can not play the E80 because it does not have enough keys. If these two issues were not important to me, perhaps I would buy the E80.

Why am I so upset about this? I don't like when somebody tries to feed me !@#$. Maybe you do, but I don't. And when someone tries to defend the indefensible, it shows that they lack objectivity, and discounts their opinion in my eyes.

Regards,
Alex

Just because you failed to read the manual, or check this apparently indispensable feature before you bought it, hardly gives you the right to call something a bug...... As a software engineer, what do you call a feature that works as designed, but you don't happen to like it's implementation?

Me, I call it what it is.... poor design. Period.

As I have repeatedly stated, to your utter disregard, I am NOT an apologist for Roland, Anything but......... However, as moderator of the G70 Bug Forum, it is my job to winnow out the design flaws from the REAL bugs. We post them to separate forums, to help the Roland R&D team separate out the wishlist from the true bugs.

I've got a wishlist a mile long, some have already been answered, some are possibly coming in a new OS, some I may have to wait until the G80 (or whatever they call it) comes out, some I may never get....... But I don't try to cloud the waters by confusing my wish for a design change with a bug report.

What, as a software engineer, would you tell someone who did the same to you? It would probably involve a cart-load of asterixes..... Oh, and by the way, how did your request to Roland to fix this on the G1000 go? Did THEY acknowledge it as a bug........? Didn't think so

The sad thing is, here you are, sitting with a keyboard that has the same design flaw you already seem to have figured out how to work around, literally hundreds of improvements over the keyboard you want to go back to, and the strong possibility that, because it's sister keyboard has this feature fixed, there's a very good chance the G70 will soon(-ish!) get this upgrade too, and you are fixating on the one thing.

Are your glasses always half empty, or do you go around blaming someone else for drinking half your beer?

Me, I was incensed that Roland dropped the Chord Sequencer, but there's no way I'm going back to my G1000 just to use this one feature........ the drums suck, compared to the G70, the organs suck, compared to the G70, the piano sucks compared to the G70, the display and knobs suck compared to the G70......... I could go on forever.

Try to spend a bit more time figuring out all the improvements, and less time on this one feature that you never had before (at least I HAD a Chord Sequencer!!) and maybe the glass will be half full, again.........