here are my love and hates of Tyros,

Love the instant access to midi file playback,
hate the 250 limit a folder
love the easy layout
hate the wimpy playback soundset
hate the harmonizer
love hate the styles
love the polyphony,

can anyone compare to the korg?

key sizeeeeeeeeeeeee.......
(or the LACK thereof)

Frank, you should check out the new GEM Genyses Pro. It may be the best of all, and YOU can afford it!
DonM

Well, our world is an accelerated world, we live in a world when old things (old persons too) are disliked. In keyboard business, a kb from 2002 is old...

In this sense, Tyros will belong to the past soon. Now, the present-future is new Gem, new PAIX and, if it finally arrives, new 2004 Roland. And, afterwards, a new Tyros pro will make all these kbs old ones.

And users will buy these new kbs.
Perhaps users should fight against it, but... When someone realizes it, when someone sits down to rest, he will be an old man already. A few later, he will die. But the world will continue rotating...

So, it is better do not think about. It is better to buy keyboards.

deep....,

I think I might be selling my Tyros for a Korg, or a Roland if I can wait

Tyro's over Korg . No question in my mind.

Is a Tyros or a Pax1 gonna make you play any better? Think about it? Hmmmm?

I say the new Roland will knock both these boards down

Donny hit it right on the head. This, friends, is coming from a Pro who makes his living with his music and his tools. The mnanufacturers throw some goodies at us as each upgrade occurs, but I can make music the same whether it be with the PA80 / PA1x, or the PSR9000 or Tyros..etc etc. Fran can still make good music on his "aged" G1000, Boo on the ancient I30, Denny is still enjoying his suddenly "antiquated" 9000 pro ....etc etc.

I see guys in bands that still use M-1s, Trinity's, old analog synths, etc that can play the heck out of them and make them sound good. Then there are guys out there with the latest Triton's, Motif's etc that can't.

Think about it. The new Roland whateveritmaybe, even if it is "better", won't make you a better player rolandfan. I don't mean that to be disrespectful or harsh towards you, but it is a reality. Buying a Korg isn't gonna make me play better than having a Roland or a Yamaha. Oh yes, I can add some new tricks / sounds to the bag, but the bottom line is, my performance will live and die by virtue of my own two hands, no matter which tools I choose.

The kb manufacturers want us to buy the latest offering, and falling in line with that they don't support the previous board after a new model comes out. This was a hard and cold reality I discovered once my "buggy" Korg M1 was replaced by the next model. Support was pretty good before that, and then after the new model came out, Korg acted almost as if they never heard of an M1.

We worry about chips and upgradability, but really, why should we ? The 9000 pro is upgradeable, but is it really ? It's no longer supported. Neither is the PA80. I guess to a point those with flash rom are, but usually upgrades seem to be focused primarily on fixing bugs, except in the case of the PA80, where upgrades were used to introduce basic features that the board should hacve had when it was first released.

You have to accept this when you buy the next board, so you better be happy with whatever it is when you get it, knowing that in a couple of years it will be ancient history. This is somewhat unique vs other instrumnents. A good guitar doesn't go "out of style" ( ok it might if it isn't well kept and the neck warps or something.. but you get my point ). A good drum set is still a good drumset years later, ditto a good sax..etc etc. Kinda makes me wonder why I didn't stick to being a drummer..lol

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 01-19-2004).]

I completely agree, getting a new keyboard will not make you play better...,

But not to be rude, at one time or another, se will buy new. some people like to do this before the keyboard they bought is worth next to nothing, just like a car.

Don't forget about poor Dan and George with thier stores, they would be broke, and all the forums would have nothing to write about,

this is what make the economy go round, I have a retail store and if people bought one thing and never upgraded, there would be no reason for companies to make new stuff or upgrade, or what about ebay.

I know I can't play but the better the keyboard the less you can tell

Exactly right-I used to change at least once a year, but that was before I had two teenagers in school! Still, if you change while the current keyboard is still worth something it helps a lot. You can depreciate a keyboard in one year now.
Also the higher-end users tend to circulate some of our keyboards amoung ourselves and this can be economical for all concerned.
I have either bought or sold keyboards with five or six of the forum members.
Only problem I ever had was forgetting to enclose a power cord with the PA80. I sent it separately and it got lost or delayed so I bought another and sent it too.
DonM

While I agree generally about the boards or whatever instrument does not IMMEDIATELY give one better chops.....

Two things, what one does play sounds better, and the second is the better the gear and better sound it has inspires me to become a better player, because I am getting more satisfying results at any given time.

If one has junk stuff, I think it produces junk results and disheartens one from really getting behind it.

When I pick up one of my guitars and play it, they just make my socks roll up and down and inspire mne to kkep playing and ideas come to me etc....

So I sort of agree and disagree, I think better instruments may not immediately make one better but ultimately they do, because of the inspiration to practice more I suppose.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

Ok, good points all. Some people DO want to have the newest and the best, and there is nothing wrong with that. There are others who may want it, but for some of us who may be cutting it a little tight, there are other things that take priority.. mortgages, bills, car payments, kids schooling... etc.

frankieve, I spent many years trying to hone my chops, and I still want better, and I'm a firm believer that if you can't play, you can't play.. no board can hide that in every situation one might encounter. It takes work and dedication. Hooray for the retailers, but someone still has to prioritize and pay my bills. The retailer isn't gonna do it, and neither will Korg or Yamaha. Is a PA1x better than my PA80 ? Probably is. DO I NEED one to play better than I do now ? Nope..

I agree with Don's assessment, because my PA80 is now a previous model and worth less. The down side is that if I sell the board before the new model comes out, do without for a time, and then if the next model is a disappointment to me, I may not realize it ahead of time because I've pretty much bought it on blind faith without giving it a good workout. A perfect example: If I had bought the PA80 early, with all of the features that were missing when it was first released, it wouldn't have lasted a week here. Still, Don's way is the best way to recoup the most funds.

I see your point Terry, but.... realize also that I'm talking mostly about going from let's say a PA80 to a PA1x or a 9000 pro to a Tyros. I'm not comparing a $500 keyboard or a 10 year old flagship vs a Tyros or a PA1x. Before the PA1x and the Tyros, the previous models were the flagships. If those couldn't inspire someone to play or want to get better, neither will their replacements. Are the new models better ? I'm sure they are, but not to the point that it should really affect my playing .. right ?

I'll gladly take a PSR2000 or even a 740, cheap key feel and all, and play it along side someone with a PA1x who doesn't know how to play, and I think I know who is going to come out sounding better in the end, assuming of course that we both don't just turn the arrangers on and play nothing to go with it.


AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 01-20-2004).]

Well, I want facts, no words.
Too much words about new Roland, but ...
What do you know about this new Roland that too much people speak but nobody have seen?
any notice about it?

Alright I agree that you could put a poor keyboard player at a PA-X and then put a talented keyboard player on a Casio and the casio will sound better.

Everyone is talking about a new top of the range arranger from Roland. it will happen.

I believe if we'd all put as much of our energy & time into practicing and perfecting our arranger keyboard playing skills, as we currently devote to debating and searching for our next new keyboard of our dreams, we'd all sound a lot better on our current keyboards than we could if we just simply traded it in for next years model, and save a lot of $ in the process too. Ok, if I can just get my hands on a Korg PA1Xpro now. - Scott

I think the newer cooler keyboards get all the hot chicks too!!!

Please make KB's BLACK again!!!

AJ
I really do not disagree at all in your final assessment Chet Atkins would have sounded great and did on any axe, because he had the chops. The overall though sounded better on better guitars and enhanced his performance and the sound that reaches the ears.

No doubt about it though there is NO substitution for being a skilled player and the finest instruments in the world will not cover up poor technical skills. The skills that one has though sounds better on better insturments as far as overall sound presentation, is really what I am eluding to.

Now if we are talking relatively the same quality of instrument then you are totally correct I think.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

One night, back when I owned a nightclub, I had a young guy play guitar and sing on Monday nights. He was pretty good, but his guitar wasn't very good-an old acoustic with a pickup. The strings were pretty high as the neck was beginning to warp.
One night James Burton came in, and the only guitar around was-you guessed it, the old acoustic with warped neck. Well, you wouldn't believe how he made that old guitar sound. And he ever complained about it, as I had warned him ahead of time about how bad it was. When he finished, though, he said it was the first time in 35 years that he had sore fingers!
Of course after that I always kept a top-of-the-line Yamaha electric for James to play when he came in. He was the only person who ever played it until I got out of the club business. He DID sound even better on it of course.
DonM

Terry,

Not taking into account that I think I've advanced my skills over time, what comes out of the gear I have today sounds a lot better than what came out of what I had even a few years ago. 5 years ago I had a Korg M1 and a PSR530. Today I have the Motif ES, PA80, and several soft synths and workstations. No competition there.

I never replied to the original question of this topic, and instead helped to push it in a whole other direction. I don't know the answer, because I haven't seen or tried a PA1x to this point.

I know I like the Tyros. I also know that I preferred the PA80 vs Yamaha for the content of the styles, but not the way the fills integrated with them. Sounds are a tossup, depnding on what instrument we're looking at.

I like using a lot of synth sounds, and for me the PA80 was the clear winner here. I would expect the same and hopefully even better with the PA1x.

While neither sounds or works exactly like a vintage synth, I prefer the PA80 even over the Motif on many of the classic synth sound emulations. Editing capabilties are very deep on the PA80, however editing itself is much easier to do on the Motif / Yamaha arrangers. None of the arrangers have any real time knobs or sliders to control and warp sounds with though.

My priorities are different than a lot of other folks are. I doubt that the majority those who use their arrangers as their tool of choice for a live performance act care very much if at all about synth sounds and editing capabilities. We all have different wants / needs. This is just one of the reasons why I gotta try something before I buy it.

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 01-21-2004).]

Shoe Polish.

lol

Im serious I hate these new colors it looks so UN-Professional on stage IMO !

You guys got me thinking, do you think the Beatles would have been as impressive as they were for thier time if they had the equipment of today?

Well some of them are still around, and I don't think they approach the raw energy and fun they projected back then. Of course they were young then too . . .
DonM

The Beatles had the best there was available at the time, and there is no question that they would be successful with any gear. The writing and the performance propelled them to the top, as there were very few gimics available back then. The fab four were for real.

Go back to the big band days and re-record the swing bands with modern digital gear and there would be a difference, but giving Paul a better bass would not have turned any more heads. It was what they DID with the gear that made the world crazy about their sound. It was the perfect blend of audio and visual excitement that we needed....especially here in the states. We had just lost our predsident and we needed cheering up in a BIG way. When the mop tops stepped off the plane 40 years ago (last week!) the music world changed forever.

Its a shame the kids today have to ask...

The Beatles?

Too bad nobody in Shea Stadium could understand what they were singing. Their Sound Stage was one of the worst experiences not only for them but the audience that tried to make out the Lyrics they were singing and the music they were playing. There was way too much screaming and noise, etc. in the stadium to hear much of anything else. Although the Beatles had a big impact on music the Group itself was rather short lived. And their success with solo careers never reached no where near their popularity as a Group. I guess the infighting took its toll as it does with many Groups and they disband because of it. Two are gone, one lost his wife a while back and Ringo has dropped out of sight as far as I can tell. Sad to say the least.

Best regards,
Mike

But their music lives on forever!

Mike,
None of what you said makes a bit of difference in the poularity or legitimacy of the band. They MADE the rules and changed them as needed. You can't argue what they did for bands everywhere. Paul plays the most lyrical bass lines, he and John wrote the most incredible music and the musicianship of the 4 as ONE, was so perfect that even if you replaced a Beatle with one that was a better player (technically) ..... you'd loose the chemistry that WAS the Beatles. They were a perfect entity in the music world.
Fresh, Bold, Opinionated, Fun ..... you just can't BEAT 'em.
They are a big part of the reason I am making a living in music today.
Madonna did the same thing for Chick singers when she hit the scene, only in a sexy, slutty way. The Beatles were born in a time that treated that kind of performance as trashy and taboo. What a shame that it couldn't stay that way. There is too much filth in pop music today.

Some parents thought Elvis was "too sexy" for TV ..... they'd have heart failure watching a Beyonce video today !

Progress ...... ?

Dave
While I agree with 99% of what you say about the Beatles and being a big fan also that believes that they changed music forever and opened the door for where we are today....the 1% is Ringo. He was and still is a crap drummer. On many of their albums they had a session drummer in to play.

While they may have opened the door many other bands made new roads from there, such as the Moody Blues with orchestration in pop. Pink Floyd with heavy synth work and stretching the envelope. Many took the ball and ran with it, so while they may have started it, there were many others that contributed to where we are in music today.

They didn't change musical history alone, but did start the change.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 01-23-2004).]

Just wanted to add my $.02 about musicianship over instrument quality. I have a MIDI copy of "The Pro" playing Moon River (from the tyros shootout) and no matter what keyboard plays this MIDI file it sounds great. Kudos to The Pro.
Starkeeper

Yeah, Ringo is no stud, but a better drummer would have gotten in the way of the intricate lines played by the guitars. Drums are a support instrument, and should be played as such. I think "crap" is a bit strong, but I agree he was the weakest link in the band. Still .... he DID have his fans !

I was listening to "Birthday" by the Beatles today. You know Paul played the drums on that track, and he slows down horribly in the drum break in the middle of the song. Why didn't they get a session player for THAT take, I wonder?

I also have inside info on the drums for "They're coming to take me away, ha ha" by Napoleon XIV ( Jerry Samuels, from Phily)
*** His drummer couldn't play the figure in perfect time for the duration of the record, so Jerry (a master editor from the Brill Bldg in NYC) recorded a few bars and cut the tape to make a loop. ( A REAL, literal loop, not like those digital referances that Acid uses today). This song was arguably, the first RAP #1 song. Nothing but spoken words and rhythm - no chords at all. It was also the quickest song to reach #1 in the label's history.

He later re released that song along with the 2 sequals:
** They're coming to get me again, Ha ha"
and Josephine's rebuttle:
** I'm glad they took you away, ha ha"

I produced 2 songs on his reissue on Rhino. It was a blast. He wrote some very creative (but really WEIRD) stuff in the sixties.

Dave
You're right, but I was using crap as a relative term to good drummers. You're also correct in that he was not the handsomest Beatle yet he still really enjoyed a lot of groupie adoration as well. Finally good or bad drummer, he' s a better one than I am and made it alot farther in music than I ever will.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html