Hi there,

I think as others have said that there is always (with a little thought)a constructive way to offer criticism. (with a little more thought I might even spell the word )

I always try to critique in a such a way that if the boot were on the other foot I would come away feeling that I had learned something about where I went wrong but still feel positive about the experience.

From the other side of the fence though.... it is very difficult posting stuff up to be judged on its relative merits or de-merits. If you have spent time and effort creating something it is often difficult to accept that the end result is not as good as you would like.

Also it is worth bearing in mind that the personality of the artist is also a major factor. Personally when I post stuff I find it really difficult to accept praise and always think that people are just being nice to me because they have known me for years. However if someone is critical I am always ready to believe the criticism as fact and will often over compensate for it.

It is really difficult to strike the right balance with so many factors to consider but ultimately, as in life in general, it is better to be honest AND courtious with just a hint of respectfulness.

Just my thoughts.
Best wishes
Tony

I would venture to say that I find it almost impossible to write down a constrctive criticism, I could talk personally face to face and come away feeling I may have been of some help, but find that no matter how careful I try to write something down, different people get different meanings from it. Its hard to print out something that everyone can agree on..(look at the Bible).....Pose

Diplomacy: The fine art of telling someone to go to hell and making them look forward to the trip.

Being a rank hobbiest in this forum I usually will post only to a safe subject. When it comes to the passions of music and performing SAFE does not come to mind. LOL

I've heard some wonderfull music in this forum and some not so good. I will praise what I feel is a good performance and not respond on the what I feel is mediocre. If I were a good musician I would try to gently guide someone where they need some help. Sadly there are some folks that are nearly beyond help as would be my case.

Jerry

ROFL I did like that!

best wishes
Tony

I don't beleive that anyone here has been given the job of educating other members on their performance skill level. Obviously, some here are much more talented than others. Just because you can afford a quality keyboard does not mean that you will produce quality music. I for one am surprized at what appears to be mediocre talent that is in a professional status. But that just goes to show that the general public is willing to pay for anything.
I think it best if this forum stick to general discussion and does not try to do to much in the way of instructing those who seem to have less talent than others. We all play music (hopefully) because we enjoy it. Even people who are not as talented, still derive a great deal of satisfaction from creating something musical. It is in all our interest to incourage this type of effort no matter how the musician is received by the general public. We are a forum of musicians that should remember that we all started out being less than we are today. I continue to lurk on this forum because of the great discussions related to new keboard technology. I look forward everyday to hearing what another forum member has taken the time to create and share with me on this forum. To give negative feedback to a musician, no matter what the intent, could promote more hostility than I would like to see here. Just my two cents.

Kind regards,

Dennis L. Almond



[This message has been edited by TwoNuts (edited 11-23-2005).]

Boy I really think this is a great thread. I think constructive criticism is a very good thing as long as it really is constructive. We can always learn from a third party but just like getting contradictory critics at a gig you must carefully weigh the opinions and search for the truth that floats to the top. If ten people say the same thing then look closely at working on that. If one person in 100 says something then regard it cautiously.

And you always have to remember there are a lot of celebrity artists who have made their name in many different ways. With some it is their showmanship, others their talented songwriting skills and others ... believe it or not .. their musicianship. If you have all 3 then that is probably not you because you are far too busy with a career to bother visiting us all here But being talented in any or all of those areas warrants you putting yourself out there to try and attract attention.

I'm sure most of us are strong in one or more areas and strengthening those skills is always a plus. The main skill in helping eachother to develop is knowing how to express constructive criticism in print without it reading like a put down. You have all probably read some of the threads recently about perceived conflicts between members which really were about attitudes that were misinterpreted when they were read on the forum.

We can all help eachother improve but that can be done without crushing creative enthusiasm. Simply read through your posting responses a couple of times before actually posting. If you are unsure about something you have expressed you can almost guarantee others are quite likely to misinterpret it themselves as well. Take the time to recompose your response because being misinterpreted is a potentially very bad thing.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 11-25-2005).]

Good point Tony. Many years ago I worked with a vocalist who sang terribly out of tune. Why did I do that you might ask? Because he had such a great stage presence it didn't seem to matter to the audience- they just loved him. Go figure!

We made some recordings at the time and they sounded awful. I guess his personality just didn't carry over into the recording.

The frustrating thing was I knew he could have sung well if he'd had the self-discipline to take lessons or just practice. Like many 'musicians' he was a temperamental type and ran off to Germany with a girl he met on holiday in Spain leaving me with booked gigs I couldn't fulfil Never saw the guy again. Ah the good old days

Boy! Judging by the very insightful and well-articulated responses, it seems this may have been a latent subject that has been stewing in the back of a lot of member's minds. I feel that there is enough thought-provoking material here to provide a guide for most of us as to how to respond (or not respond) to poor quality musical offerings. The keywords seem to be COURTESY and HONESTY (and in some cases, SILENCE)......but not false platitudes. I have personally learned the hard way not to do that. Since some of the posts included some great stories involving personal experience with this subject, I'll share one of mine. Early in our marriage, I made the mistake of praising everything my wife cooked, even if it was awful (which a lot of it was back then). Being a very organized person, she would make notes and comments beside every recipe she tried; things like, "MAKE AGAIN, HE LOVES IT". After gagging over it several more times but not having the courage to tell her, I finally resorted to going into her cookbook, drawing a line through her comments and replacing it with "NO HE DOESN'T, HE HATES IT". After a few dinners consisting of Corn Flakes and skim milk and silence, we both agreed that perhaps honesty really is the best policy. Consequently, I no longer have to eat Brussel Sprouts, Brocolli, Liver, (fill in the blanks). Thanks for the great responses, I think it was cathartic (sp) for all of us...plus, did you notice; for such a long thread, not a single disagreement. Seems like having to think first before responding, brings out the civility in us.

Peace,

chas

I can add my opinion to this topic from a very personal point of view: I have to thank many contributors of this Forum for helping me to correct mistakes I made in my past recordings, like using too much reverb or even playing a wrong note (on a couple of different songs).
In a particular case, the remark about the excess of reverb was made in a rather blunt manner, but at least the poster had the tact to express his appreciation for my playing style, and this helped me a lot to swallow my pride and reply in a civil manner. So, I guess that all depends on the personality of the poster and the tact he/she has and is willing to use.
On a different note, at least in one case I had to give up giving advice to a Forum member, because he was too stubborn to accept even the slightest criticism, so my question in this case would be: are we ready to accept the opinion of other musicians or are we posting songs only to boost our ego?

Cgiles, Loved the story!

Dreamer: I think *most* musicians will post music not for ego, neither for critisism, but in order to share the enthusiasm or to feel 'understood' by the music (which you do mine apparently!). I think SHARING is the key word here. Then when someone deflates that enthusiasm, it's painful.

Suggestion: Post a song a few days after you've played it, so that you are not so attached to it, and can be more objective and open to constructive critisism.

Another point I don't think was mentioned: generally it's pointless to point out a mistake which you 'know' the performer was aware of, but had slipped up on, didn't bother to fix, or pretends isn't there.