Thanx, I'll do that. Are we ok?

I really don't begrudge anyone from having a "No return" policy. I just feel that when friends are dealing together, the lines have to be softened up a bit. Sure, business IS business, but when working professsionals buy as often as we do .... we need to have some special considerations. It's more of a professional courtesy than a policy change.

I wasn't demanding that DanO take the kb back. I just wanted the option of selling it with what SHOULD be the original, full guarantee ... since it's only been out of the store for two weeks.

We'll jusy make sure all "legal" paperwork is done with Donny's name, that's all. I think the product itself, should carry the warrentee, not the owner.

Cool move Dan O and it's the right thing to do.
jam on,
Terry

From observing the posts on this BB over the past few years or so, its evident to me that there are some people on here who change the arranger keyboards they use more frequently than they do their own underwear. The way I see it is that these people are abusing the privilege of a 30 day money back guarantee as if its their right, which it isn't. Retail Stores offer these return policies knowing that most people actually research a product thoroughly beforehand, often try it out several times before purchasing it, and most won't return it.

I've seen people utilize these return policies only to be able to use a product for a few weeks on a certain project, gig, performance, etc., knowing that they were going to return it from the get go which is simply wrong. This can only happen so many times before the store decides to implement a shorter return period, or worse yet, no refunds or returns at all. I've seen this happen too many times at music stores I've been to.

When I shop for a product I buy from the store that offers me the best service, selection, a reasonable price, and who are willing to work with me in the event the product I purchased doesn't work for the application I bought it for. For me to expect the store to take an item back, especially if I've returned many things prior, is simply ridiculous. If you aren't sure that the item you are buying will work for you, perhaps you haven't researched it enough or you shouldn't have bought it in the first place. Sure there are unforeseen circumstances that could come up but returning an item one time is one thing, doing it over and over again is another.

I realize my opinion won't settle well with many, but if we expect a retail establishment to stay open and provide us with service, selection, and great pricing, we owe it to them to not abuse something as simple as a a return policy.

[This message has been edited by Ensnareyou (edited 11-17-2002).]

Ensnareyou,
N one is asking DanO to take this back. I have no problem selling ice to Eskimos, and selling top line, great sounding arrangers is even EASIER.
My original question was about warrentee transfers, but since you brought it up - it's MY right as a customer to return anything I want, for WAHTEVER reason I want as long as it is within the company's policy. Don't preash about research or commitment ..... retail stores have to expect a certain ammount of returns. It's a fact of doing business. I do agree that using a 30 day return policy as a "weekend FREE rental" is a bit over the edge, but hey - some stores say they just want thge customer to be happy. 30 days. NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

In my case - I am perfectly happy and willing to sell this keyboard on my own, and I never expected DanO to take it back. I asked him nicely, if there was a trade consideration, but he declined. That was his right, and we arte still friends. It's really not an issue. You have to ASK for what you want. I asked .... he declined - life goes on.

So, we are at the same place as when I started this new swap-fest. I have a Ketron XD9 that is 2 weeks old and been out on ONE 1hr gig. Anyone interrested? The warrentee will be gaurenteed by Uncle Dave's Music and handled through Bell/Solton in NY. (under Donny's name)

I can be reached at 215-284-1328 or the normal email connections.

Where I live there was no place to aduition the keyboard I bought. I bought it because people who owned it said it had the best Sequencer on earth for an arranger. I wanted to ry it out.

I tried to buy from the local dealer who didn't have one. He wanted to order one for $2195 for me. I bought it over the phone from Schroeders in Arizona for $1695 with a few bucks added for shipping.

Anyone who would pay a local dealer $500 more (for his service) for the same item with a "No Return Policy" buying a piece sight unseen either has more money than brains or is not as smart as I am. Ha! Ha!

I don't change gear every other week. I've owned my keyboard for 2 years now and will keep it until they make an i30 with the Trition sounds.

I may open a store to cater just to UD, Donny and some others here exclusively if I don't have to take returns for 30 days. Ha! Ha!

Ensnareyou,

I agree that those who abuse a 30 day return policy, should then be denied that priveldge and is why I said in my post it needs to be taken on a case by case basis.

Probably the place we differ in opinion is this...no matter how much one researches an item (and I do alot of homework before I buy) until one gets the board or whatever into the studio or on the gig for a week or two and really starts discovering the ins and outs of a piece of gear, one really can't tell if it will work or not for them.

Secondly, with internet sales, the day they quit offering a money back, is the day I quit ordering from the net. To get something mail order without being able to see and play it and then have to eat it if it's junk, is totally unfair and weighted 100% in the businesses favor.

That all being said.....in support of company return policies....yesterday while getting a new piece of gear at GC, I overheard a sonversation between 2 managers. Apparently some clown bought a demo drum kit, knowing it was a demo and got the price break accordingly. Well, he was returning it piece by piece claiming there was stuff wrong with it and getting brand new pieces in exchange. It's dirt bags like this that abuse it for the rest of us who do not go around trying to scam stores.
jam on,
Terry



[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 11-18-2002).]

I find it interesting that people buy homes, cars, boats, RV's, motorcycles, groceries, some jewelry, various other items, some even get married, knowing full well they don't have a 30 day money back guarantee, and yet buying an arranger keyboard you feel its "your right" to be able to return "anything you want" with "no questions asked" and "for any reason", which it simply isn't. I agree it is your right to purchase from a store that will allow you to return the item in the event it wasn't what you expected, but if you think that store will allow you to do this over and over again without recourse is being foolish. Eventually you won't be allowed to do so and it would likely cause the stores policy to change and become a blanket policy ruining it for others because you were so "fickle." I've seen this exact thing happen in my area with my local music stores. Customers abused the return privilege, some used it as a way to get free gear rentals, and eventually that return policy was changed from 30 days to 5 days for refunds and 10 days for exchange. Did that policy change stop me from buying from the local store, absolutely not. They provide me with service, selection, and they treat me very well and know their products. Am I disappointed that those few people who abused the return policy ruined it for others who might actually need to legitimately use it, sure.

I know if I expect the store to stay in business that its up to me to make sure I am buying a product that I want, need, and that will work for me. My local store is very reasonable and I know that if for some unknown reason the product didn't work for me as expected they would take it back. That doesn't mean its my right to play around with it for 30 days only to return it and expect a refund. I've yet to run across a keyboard that was so complex I couldn't figure it out in a matter of hours, let alone days whether or not it sounded as good as I expected or met my needs. For me to say I absolutely need 30 days to know exactly isn't necessary. As always YMMV and greatly so from mine.

Ensnare

"That tank of gas I bought last week didn't quite give me the performance I was expecting from my car, I think I'll go back to my gas station and get a refund on the fuel I have left."

I was at a Home Depot store (I'm on their frequent flyer miles due to building my own house myself) and I was talking with one of the store employees. He mentioned that they had the best "secret" rental program. It seems that a lot of people "buy" a tool, (power or other), get the job done, then return the tool for a full refund!
I was shocked when he mentioned this to me.
When I go to buy "new" things I expect them to be new meaning unused. I purchased my PSR2000 knowing it was the floor "demo" model. I trusted the person who sold it to me, George Kaye, who described it in excellent condition and it was as it was described. As long as the person is honest and deals fairly with others I will frequent their store. I will go to small stores on purpose since I know that sales people or owners and want them to stay in business. I have been known to pay a little more since I know the products and support I will get from them. I do look for bargains but not at the expense of the next person buying an item.
I sense from this discussion that everyone is very fair and has good moral qualities about their business practices. This is outstanding. Keep up the good work. I believe it does pay off in the end.

- Brian

Ensnare,
Hmmmm....you seem to be rather mixing the situation here with dirt bags that abuse store policies. First it actually is our right, if that is the store policy as stated and advertised.

No where in this thread have I seen mention of the fact that any of the involved people have previously abused Dan O's return policy. In this case no one is even trying to return anything, it's about the transfer of warranty on a 2 week old piece of gear.

In my music equip buying history, I have exchanged 1 sound module for another more expensive one.

About some of your other items that you point out......cars, Rv's, motorcycles have lemon laws, grocery stores absolutely will exchange or refund groceries that you have a problem with.

I am not at all in disagreement with you on those that abuse the return policies, but I do not see anyone here in what's been said, that fits that profile IMO.


About the gas analogy......
Now, you're going to extremes as well as being somewhat ridiclious. First they do not offer a money back guarantee at the gas stations as do some of the other businesses we are talking about. Secondly a $20. tank of gas is hardly a comparison to a $2000.00 keyboard 100 times, the price.

If you can listen to a keyboard in a place like GC with 50 other instruments blasting 50 different tunes and hear the patches all well enough, and in an hour or so time frame know absolutely that this is the instrument for you and you would not return or exchange it, even though that is their stated policy....how great for you.
Terry



[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 11-18-2002).]