This is an open question to eveyone on the forum regardless of which instrument you play. I spend a lot of time researching style content but since there are so many of you experienced arranger keyboard players right here, I would like to have your direct input on the following:

1. Which styles do you feel are lacking or missing on your current instrument(s). Please mention song references if necessary.

2. Which styles do you feel are "overserved" on your current instrument. That is; you have a ton of them but you rarely, if ever, use them.

3. If you had to choose just 10 styles to survive on a gig, which would they be, (they don't necessarily have to already exist).

Thanks to everyone in advance for your cooperation and suggestions.

Chris Anthony

Chris:
In partial response to your questions, I'd like to see style programmers continue to approximate what a live or real band/combo sounds like, i.e., tasteful riffs, licks, that really compliment that style. Maybe like what one hears on recordings. To me, each generation of boards shows improvements. The big band, jazz, older rock/pop styles which I use a lot are much improved. However, there's probably half the styles on my board that's never used. I'm still looking for a realistic western swing style that convincingly demonstrates the steel guitar, twin fiddles, comping guitar, etc. characteristic of that style. Otherwise, I'm pretty well pleased with what I've got.

Chris ,
Nice to see you post on the forum ! Dano

Hi Chris,
I do mostly Country/Western, Old time R&R, Blues and standards.
Nobody has enough authentic country/western styles, though Yamaha has made great strides in that direction.
I'm sure it's not the case with everyone, but I have little use for all the Disco, Rap, House-type styles.
I miss the great selection of Big Band styles that Technics has.
10 styles to survive;
1. 4/4 rock n'roll, with and without walking bass (Johnny Be Good)
2. 6/8 ballad (Unchained Melody, etc.)
3. Simple Waltz, suitable for CW or standards.
4. Blues Shuffle (Kansas City, Everyday I Have the Blues, etc.)
5. Swing/BigBand Slow and Fast (maybe that's two)
7. 2/4 country. (Good Hearted Woman, Johnny Cash)
8. Country shuffle with and without walking bass. (Ray Price, Merle Haggard, George Strait)
9., 10. 4/4 ballads, Country and pop
Now, if you JUST had these styles, they would need very simple backgrounds on a couple of variations, so they could be used on a variety of songs. Yamaha is good at this.
Good luck on the new keyboard.
Did you get my email at GEM?
DonM

Hi Chris:

Great to finally meet you in person at NAMM and see you back here on the forum too. Did you checkout the picture I caught of you demonstrating the 'new' Genesis?
http://scottyee.com
- go to the pictures page

Though I play a cross section of musical genres & styles, I find the jazz swing & ballad (brushes) most versatile for covering a wide variety of tunes (especially the standards). I'm looking for realistic sounding drum patterns, tasty drum fills & bass parts to complement (not compete with) the keyboard parts played live(by me).

BTW: I hope you will 'seriously' consider adding (to the GEM Genesis), 'rootless jazz type' chord recognition supported in both full keyboard & split modes on the Technics KN keyboards, and in split mode on the Ketron SD1 & Yamaha PSR keyboards. As I'm sure you're aware, adding this enhanced chord recognition will certainly broaden the appeal of the Genesis to traditional jazz keyboard players. - Scott

Chris...

Most of my audiences range in age from 50 to near death (we are talking Florida here)...but they have a very wide taste in styles and music in general.
Most every style I use comes from the PRS series or CVP. Kinda hard to narrow it down to 10...but here goes.....

My most used:
1. Lounge Piano (Misty, Teach Me Tonight, Summer Wind)

2. Jive (Run Around Sue, Back To Lousiana)

3. Simple 8 Beat (Lady in Red, Wind Beneath My Wings)

4. 4/4 Rock & Roll (Memphis, Jailhouse Rock, Johnny B Goode)

5. Combinations of Swing, Big Band and Big Band Shuffle1 settings (It Had To Be You, You're Nobody Til Somebody Loves You, Satin Doll, Just a Gigalo)

6. Rhumba Island (Margaritaville, I Wish You Love) I also use Bossa and other Rhumbas, but find the endings cumbersome, too long and over produced in most cases.

7. Croco Twist & Twist1 (Old Time Rock & Roll, Takin Care of Business, and the Chubby Checker stuff)

8. Cha Cha Cha from CVP series. Most of the Cha Cha styles are way too over produced for my taste. (Brandy You're a Fine Girl, Under The Boardwalk...and Tea for Two types)

9. 70's Disco (I Will Survive, Celebration, YMCA)

10. A variety of Waltzes (Vienna for Delilah-
Simple for Ballroom stuff like Fascination- and Country for things like Could I Have This Dance, Bartender Blues.

In addition to Cha Cha mentioned above, I had to look long and hard to find a Merengue that I felt was not too over-produced.

House dance and techno is not much use to me.

Eddie

Hello Chris,
Great to see a company representation on this bbs!
As arranger I am still using a G 800, which is now over 4 years old, so not exactly a representation of todays arrangers, but missing styles are; oriental styles!
I do have quite some user made oriental styles but most of them are just not good enough or too limited.

As for the common western styles;
I could use more enhanced jazz,blues and dixieland(1920-1950) styles.

10 styles not to be missed;
About the same as DNJ.


I don't use the arranger professionally though, but just for entertainment between friends and family.

I use a kurzweil K2600 for composing.

As I will probably replace the G 800 this year, I am very interested in the genesys.

Again, great to see you posting!

Fred

The ideal arranger KB would have a TOTAL Flash memory for styles and come with a CD (or a bunch of discs) full of styles. Giving me the ability to create my own Custom Style Library to suit my particular wants and needs.

hey chris,
here is my simple list....
1-Oriental styles...(just make some improvment on the ones that comes with the wk8 and I would like some more khalije styles and modern saiyde)

2-I would like some support for reggae styles(please make at least 6 or 7 of them)


thank you chris.

p.s please email me if you don't what styles I'm talking about on number 1.

please

This is from the Sk880PS, style banks and tables:

-Bank 8-beat: very important bank, needs updating with quality styles from classical themes and styles.
8beat1- very nice and useful
8beat2 - very nice and useful
8beat9- nice and useful
SlowBeat- nice
SlowBallad- nice
6_8Ballad- nice

- Bank 16-beat: very important bank
16beat1- very nice and useful
16beat2- useful
16beat13- phenominal strumming guitar
16beat14- phenominal strumming guitar
16BtBallad- phenominal strumming guitar

-bank rock: important
slowrock2: nice and important
rest of slow rocks need updating to more ballad classical themes.

-bank Funk: no need for this bank. Can be stored in the harddrive.

-bank Dance1: Quality not quantity
Piano Dance: very nice

-bank Dance2: this mostly Disco bank, no need for it. store in harddrive.

-bank Jazz: Quality not quanity
Broadway: Truly very nice! (please many of that)

-bank U.S. TRAD: Quality not quantity, can be combined with the rest of TRAD1 and TRAD2

-bank TRAD1: important: concentrate on waltz please.
waltz(1,2): nice and important
RealVienna: very nice
OrchWaltz: nice

-bank TRAD2:
Twist1: very nice
Reggae: needed

-bank Latin1: very important
Tango: very nice
StandTango: really very nice


-bank Latin2: very important
Gipsy: very nice & very important (need many of them please)

-bank flash factory styles:
SpgtiWestern: very very nice
Classical1: very nice (classical needs its own bank)
Classical2: very nice
Shadows: very nice

-some harddisk styles:
*ST_BEAT:
8beat: very very nice (epoch ballad, millions of these please)


-support for GEM oriental disks. (please all sounds, styles, songs, and oriental drumkit) New oriental sounds and styles are also needed. For example Kanoun in WK2oriental is better than the one in the GEM oriental disks.

What is missing are two banks:

8-beat Ballads bank: Long intro and ending, Based on Quality classical themes, such as Love Story by Andy Williams

16-beat Ballads bank: long intro and ending, based on Quality classical themes, such as Engelbert Humpendink (spelling?)

Some wonderful bank ideas:

movie styles bank: Based on some very classical older movies such as: Star war theme, James Bond, Please no titanic , others

classical styles bank: based on famous classical pieces for example classical1, classical2... Mozart, Bach, Beethoven...

Please note that I love the minor key more than the major key. So Please have ballanced amount of minor key songs.

P.S, before I forget... there are some songs that have the verse in "slow rock" but the chorus in 4/4 or 8-beat. some of those please-ballad quality.

Thank you.

[This message has been edited by sk880user (edited 01-31-2002).]

Here is my list:

1 dance
2 disco
3 rock
4 8beat
5 16beat
6 pop
7 latin pop/disco
8 funk/R&B
9 ethnic/world beat
10 movie/ballads

I have no use for:

1 country
2 jazz/swing
3 ballroom
4 waltz/march/polka

Thanks for asking

Eric

Hi Chris
My list (10) playing 9000Pro is
1-Lounge piano
2-Jazz trio
3-Jazz ballad2
4-Nocturne
5-Cha cha cha
6-Brasilian samba
7-Fast bossa
8-Cool bossa
9-Beguine
10-16 beat 3

Brasilian regards
Chico still loving 9000Pro

Eric, You've written my list out for me!,

You must share the same music that I do (Funk/Dance, Rock etc). I don't play Ballroom, Latin, C&W (Country & Western)-Cha cha cha, Brazilian samba, bongo, mambo,Jazz,Samba, Jazz Waltz or anything like that. I play/like music that is used mainly for todays industry (not rap/hard dance though)

Not sure if a Instrument that is 80% full of styles that I will never use is "for me". I really "would" like a blank sheet to start with, and load styles in as I need them. It's no good having the greatest "big-band", "cha cha" sound(s) ever created....if you aren't going to use them, and I won't.

It has to be said that NO arranger will cater for any single person - exclusively, but there are arrangers out there that satifies some peoples needs...but not others. It's just a matter of taste. Someone who listens to todays "rock and pop/dance", isn't going to worry about were his next "cha cha", samba, Ballroom style is going to come from I wouldn't have thought. Vice-versa applies to the above sentance as well

O8

Hi
I like sk880user's suggestion list. And also Scott Yee's and ChicoBrasil's. Versatile 8 & 16beats, ballads, swing & jazz, movie & epoch ballads, good assortments of 3/4 & 6/8, followed by latin... etc.
Tom

Hi Chris.

WOW, this is quite a topic, and the answers are probably going
to be just as many as there are users around
It's very geographical and personal related, and also depending
on how or where, or in what kind of 'gigs' the keyboard are being
used. And not to forget about if the user are a skilled musician
or just a humble amateur like myself.

Most all keyboards I've tried have the very same overloaded and
much too perfect and sophisticated arranged styles regarding to
my way of use and taste, even my KN5000.
Most of the 'on board' styles I never use as it is, and at least
60% of the stuff are never being used at all.
I'm really very happy for the KN's composer and the possibility to
tweak and edit the styles to make it fit a song in a 'easy' way.

I've not tried the newest GEM's yet, the last one was a WS2, but
the new Ketron SD1 is the keyboard who 'hit my heart' regarding to
the type of styles and the 'live' way it sounds. Also I think they
have done a good job regarding to make it sound like if it is the
same 'band' who play, regardless to the preset style you choose.
Most others sounds like a totally new group for each single style
you choose.

What I miss:
6/8 and 12/8 ballads, soul and blues. Various down on earth sounding,
and not any 5 minutes overloaded intros and endings in every single
style. Also some more native/popular Scandinawian types, and 'beats'
who get the feet moving and wanna dance!

What I can live without:
That most of the waltzes, polkas etc. always sound like german
'ompa-ompa', too much 'jodel' and brass.
Most of the bigband, acid jazz, show and hollywood.

Must have:
Those I've converted, tweaked and made ready on my KN's HD.

Seriously, I would rather have a big amount of various styles to
choose from i.e. a CD or as downloadable from the web, then load and
store into the keyboard those who fit my needs and taste regarding to
the way I use the keyboard.
Maybe also grouped in categories fitted to what part of the world
you're living in regarding to native music styles and a more common
international group.

Thank you for listening
GJ

[This message has been edited by Gunnar Jonny (edited 02-01-2002).]

Chris:
More thoughts about styles. I've had a difficult time finding convincing, smooth jazz/fusion styles in arranger keyboards. Many of the funk styles seem "too busy" or, literally, too funky for my uses. I'd like to see a wider selection of such styles that some might call easy-listening jazz, or some such name. I'm referring to styles that approximate the music of The Crusaders, Stuff, and artists such as Larry Carlton, Norman Brown, Dave Grusin and other BMG artists. Also, I like the idea in other posts, i.e., being able to select and add only those styles that are used most.

Larry

Hi Octave8

it does look like we like the same kind of music.
You answered for me too: no Rap/hard rock

Eric

Chris,
since you work for GM I am taking advantage of this occasion to vent my main complaint about (all) arrangers:
no matter which style you choose, after a while it becomes a cliché, because each time you press the start, fill or end button you know in advance what to expect. I wish that arranger programmers could add a lot of variations, i.e. at least 6 different fills for each style (they last just 1 bar so don't take much memory), and every time you press "Fill" one of them comes up in a random way (just like a real drummer does) and the same could apply to the "intro" or "ending" parts. I am not talking about huge differences, but something than can surprise you each time a little.
Maybe you could choose the degree of variation to expect (let's say from 0 to 5) and so every time you start a song you could choose to play exactly what is in your mind or let you little band take you aback.

Andrea,
did you know that this feature for fill's was
build in on the KN3000?
It was called "Dynamic accomp", and was started
by exstra push at the keys, but it only worked
when the "onboard" preset styles was used.
Now it's history, don't know why.
GJ

Chris. Regarding Styles in future arrangers. Band-In-A-Box Software uses a data base where each Style type contains a number of accompaniment parts within a style type that it can call upon at random or indeed be programmed to call up a certain riff more often if the user wishes. This system provides an accompaniment which gives subtle changes and is far less repetitive than a Style containing 4 bar loops.

Graham UK

Chris,
On my Yamaha 2000 I would like to see a few more good 3/4 waltz styles. Maybe some fast
(double time) 3/4 styles. It seems that the 2000 is lacking in that area. I believe it's been that way with the last 4 Yahaha's I've owned. I need some that will work good with southren gospel music,& maybe some trad. music. I have downloaded a lot of 3/4 styles, but somehow can't seem to find what I want! OH!!! Shhhhhhhhhhhh!!
I forgot I'm sorry!
Oh! The 2000 could use another country 4/4
Style simlar to to the Country 2-4.
In case you haven't heard it needs an upgrade!
Nobby
PS: I use
1: Country all Styles (blugrass also)
2: Ballads (most of them)
3: Good 8beat & 16beat rythms
4: Waltz
5: Swing (I'm picky in this area!)
6: Jazz ( " " " " " )
7: Rock & roll (not hard rock!)
8: Misc. Some classic, trad.,


------------------


[This message has been edited by Nobby (edited 02-01-2002).]

just give us flash memory, and put the styles on a website for download - with individual purchase registration key if necessary.

I am STILL looking for a jazz ballad style using brushes on drums, bass playing simple 1-3 with a variation to 'double time' for instrumental solos, with the drums changing to sticks, bass to straight 4 and perhaps some bongo/conga rhythms in the background. I've done some stuff using panel memories (with the tempo 2x as fast), but it's still not quite what I'm looking for, and I'm not good at creating my own. Any help?
t.

i need the good ones, and none of the bad ones

Fast swing/BigBand - mack the knife,hello dolly
medium swing/BB Cab Driver Tuxedo Junction

Slow Swing/BB Moonlight seranade At last

slow Jazz combo - Misty

medium Jazz combo - Satin Doll

Fast jazz - geogia brown, green dolphin

Bossa - Wave, girl from

Rumba - green Eyes, yello bird

Cha Cha - cherry Pink

slow ballad - after the lovin, wonderful world

slow country - crazy, good times

medium country - cheatin heart

Country Bugg - Boot Scootin

country two - Elvira

Slow rock - blueberry hill

medium rock - proud mary

fast rock - johnny be good

60's rock - the letter, happy together

boogie/shuffle - Kansas city

broadway - NY NY

Polka

slow/medium/fast waltz

samba

Don't need - techno, house, hip hop, rap

Dear Chris,

I play for a lot of geriatrics, so I like that old stuff from the 20's to the 50's and 60's. For songwriting, I like a lot of the 8 and 16beat stuff.

I'd like to place a request that General Music create a scaled down version of their Genesys that is a little lighter and doesn't have the CDRW. Give the PSR2000 a run for it's money. Something for $2000 or less.

Larry

I have no need for 20 Waltzes, Polkas etc. I have no need for Dance, Rave and such.

I agree with Scott and all the other Jazz comments here.

I'd like to be able to down-load or get a disk or two or three with the stuff I like. I can go some Country. But I enjoy the old time Rock and Roll more than Country.
Mostly I want Jazz Combo for Ballads, Swing for tunes like "All the things you are". Sinatra stuff and such.

I think every thing should come on a disk or CD to be loaded by each individual. As you can see most here dissagree on what styles to put on any arranger.

Chris is there a problem with putting the styles on a disk? If not, what is the hold up? Please tell! What the problem would be if there is such a problem and then we will quit asking.

Chris
I'd like to echo Dreamer's comments about variations - and J. Larry's comments about needing easy listening modern jazz styles.

I'd also like to see it possible to play a midi file while the arranger was playing - so you could bring in special prerecorded passages over the top of a tune at any time -something independant of the chord changes.

MH

That's the idea behind the "multi pads". I can see short phrases being useful, but i doubt that a whole midi file could be controlled at the same time as an "ad lib" arrangement. Who knows ...... maybe it's a good idea.

Hi Chris,
First of all I would like to thank you for the Invitation to the private showing of the Genesys, It was a great event, and Otmaro was amazing on the Mega.
I want to congradulate General Music on the fine production line they presented this year. I think the Genesys tops every arranger out there with the exception of the key structure , which General music is working on.
The flash memory is great to have for the styles, that you decide what to put in your keyboard. All unwanted styles can stay out or on stand buy.
I also like the idea of random choice of fills intros, and endings..
Chris, again great job on putting a nice keaboard together, swivel speakers would be nice, and I am sure you got what you asked for so far..

George.



[This message has been edited by George Pchakjian (edited 02-06-2002).]

[This message has been edited by George Pchakjian (edited 02-06-2002).]