I would like to apologize to those who find the subject of software based arranger systems irrelevant and a waste of their time. I made the assumption that people would like to see all alternatives when it comes to the subject of arrangers (hardware or software). But there you go I should not be mind reading - I should have asked. Again sorry for intruding on your valuable time.

For those of you who like to stay on top of the software based solution you could contact me directly via Email or alternatively we could spend more time on the following internet sites:

OMB
Live - Styler
Jammer

I don't think there is enough interest to startup a separate site to cover just this subject.

I would like to thank all those who have been helpful and kind to me.

Thank you

Frank L. Rosenthal
flr@mts.net


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 03-16-2005).]

Frank,

There is absolutely no reason for you to appologize to anyone for your input on this or any other forum. The information you provided is valuable to a number of individuals. Initially, I tried using some of the synthsofts, however, I found them too cumbersome for my applications. For others, they could be the best thing since sliced bread. Your contributions have opened an entirely new world of music for some, and I personally know of a few who have really benefitted from your expertise in this area.

Frank, IMO you have been, and hopefully will continue to be, a valuable member of this and other music forums.

Cheers,

Gary

Frank,

I'm not sure why you are apologizing. You are on the cutting edge of software based arrangers. When you get everything perfect and share it with us we will all use software based arrangers. I agree with Gary that your information is valuable. Please keep up the good work.

Tom

I agree with Gary, and I am one person that has benefitted from Frank's help and comments.

If you are not interested in "soft synth " and "soft arrangers"...simply skip over the post title...no need to dampen the interest that some of us have in the "soft" world...It could easily turn into our future needs...why not learn now from our SZ expert[Frank]..

To chase away our chief 'soft' expert would be a crime....and I will not allow it to happen....

Come on everybody..open up your minds..you could learn something,that you may just use down the road..

I agree totally, Frank, you have NOTHING to apologize for. There are a lot of us who ARE interested in softsynths and like hearing what you have to say. Please don't let some narrow minded person who does NOT speak for the rest of us confuse you into not posting about software synths.

Tom

------------------
Bigger is not always better

Frank,

I agree with all the previous posts.

Over the years I have found your research on software-based systems fascinating and your results very encouraging (not to mention your dedication...).

I believe that at this time when the hardware instruments have basically stopped improving, it is the efforts of system integrators, like yourself, that will keep pressure on the hardware manufacturers to keep improving their offerings. As a result, every user benefits, whether they are using a hardware instrument or a software-based system.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I am about to give another try to a software-based system myself. I am working on a somewhat limited budget, and the last time I tried this, I got a feeling that at this time the software based systems will range from a good and moderately expensive to very good (or better) and very expensive, depending how much money you want to spend on various individual samples. Hence, my results were somewhat underwhelming. Hopefully with a better laptop, and perhaps spending a bit more money on software, I will have better results this time. Your system represents a gold standard of software-based arranger, and it is a beacon to many of us.

I, for one, always enjoy reading your posts, even when they disagree with my point of view .

Please keep those posts coming.

Best regards,
Alex

and i agree also,,,,a couple of years ago when you were talking about taking less of an active interest in the synthzone,i mentioned then that you were the godfather of this music site,i still believe that,,,,,,alot of people have taken your advice to heart and benefited from it,,,,,,,,all this software thats been spoken of was way over my head,but the more this is spoken about and acted on the more the rare becomes the norm,(i only wish that i could buy english magazines here in spain that deals with the new advances in music)alot of the new software has been installled into the latest boards,maybe just maybe this has influenced the major manufacturers to give more software to stop the drop off in sales,only my opinion of course,mike

In the "Slowdown on the forum" post, many members express their disinterest on softsynths.

While I haven't decided which way to turn, even for my non-pro use home system, I particularly like the idea of a flexible soft synth(s). Frank's advice is to the point, and show very well that he knows what he is talking about.

I don't think the other members like to "dampen" your efforts Frank, and today's indifference, might be tomorrow's true love. Your contributions are welcome here, and as I can see in the other posts here, I am not alone in that.
The decision to stay or leave will be yours, but I'm sure many here would like you to continue. I for one, would.

Theodore

I also want to add that you have nothing to apologize for. As you know, I am also very interested in a softsynth arranger approach. There is a lot to learn, and I could learn a lot from you. I required a list of good quality voices and you outlined a list of sources. This is invaluable information. It almost sounded like you were retiring from the forum. Please don't do this.
We know that Yamaha, Ketron, and other mfg. read these posts. The interest on this forum regarding softsynths, vst, soundfonts, OMB, etc. may have prompted Yamaha to purchase Steinberg. Yamaha can see the future also.
Here is a quote from you Frank,"Alex, the economics or cost profile changes when considering that a keyboard and sampler are fixed costs to be used with many sampled acoustic or other instruments"
I will repeat myself again on this issue, I have a computer, soundcard, just purchased a good soundsystem (beter quality then in my keybaords), OMB software, keyboards can be used as controllers. I don't want to have to buy a new keyboard every time Yamaha or Roland comes out with a few new voices.
I kept debating with myself if I should ask you this question or not. The worse you can say is no. Here goes: Hey Frank can I buy a good quality flute soundfont/vst from you? I would be willing to pay you say $25.00. We can take this discussion off forum.
Starkeeper

[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 03-16-2005).]

Frank, I also hope you continue to post as I'm sure that there has never been a better opportunity than at present to "design" your own soft arranger.

I am just starting to investigate this idea and the conversations between you and the others has whetted my appetite. As I have been monitored your recent conversations it occured to me that, although I have tried, played and sold many of the popular AKs and synths since they first appeared, I have never tried anything on the software side, not even a softsynth!!

Well, I have just got NI B4 software and simply cannot believe how good it is. I use it with my laptop and a USB Audiophile 24/96 unit and just love the sound. It is not convenient to alter the drawbars via mouse or keyboard but I can investigate programmable controllers. Anyway, I can always switch between my own saved presets.

Following this I am now planning to investigate OMB/Jammer etc in the near future when time allows to see if I could get a working sytem that is robust enough for gigging with

I would very much miss your contributions to this forum. I'm sure many others agree that you should stay.


Regards - Keith F

I made a comment on softsyths on another thread. My comment was that they don't interest me I never said that you shouldn't post it, or others shouldn't be interested in them, or that there was anything wrong with them.

For those that are interested they can find alot of help and info here and anybody who shares their time and knowledge should be appreciated.
I'm sorry if you are offended that I am not interested or if you took that as a personal attack.

Frank, You are THE MAN when it comes to Softsynths. I'm not interested in them now, but who knows, maybe someday . . .
You certainly don't bother me, I just don't post on the strings because I don't know anything about them. Ignorance is bliss!
Carry on,
DonM

I agree with that what Don said. There is also no need for me to work with 'vst' because I'm happy and pleased with the instruments I actually own.

Don't worry about that, Frank! There are enough people all over the world which are interested in soft synths so keep on posting!

Follow only the sign in your heart - no matter what happens!


------------------
Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)

I think that as long as the subject is arrangers, soft or otherwise, then anything goes... and I've learned much from FLR's posts which have always been on-topic IMHO. But I also think that it defeats the purpose of having an arranger forum if the off-topic posts get out of hand, and that's is what is happening. Softsynths & arrangers are the perfect topic because softsynths may well be the future of arrangers, but just talking about softsynths or any synths that have no bearing on arrangers should go somewhere else... and there's plenty of somewhere else's to choose from. Believe me, I've got plenty of non-arranger things I'm interested in but out of respect to this forum's theme I'm inclined to keep my posts here on-topic.

The ownership and use of arranger keyboards is what drew people to this group and bound it's members together... I don't want to see it drift apart just because some people can't seem to respect that.

I will gadly continue to contribute to this forum - as much as I can. Since I have been spending the vast majority of my time and money on softsynths and soft arrangers my knowledge of hardware based solution is growing dim. So when I saw the link from the software based solutions to the slow down of this forum I became very concerned. I don't want to waste your time, especially the time of the key contributors of this forum. I am merely an old man with modest means and even a smaller mind - but I always try my best.

As I said before, I am very grateful to everyone on this forum for helping me understand and evolve this subject.

Thank you

Hi Frank,
your help has been invaluable. Obviously softsynths & software arrangers isn't for everybody, but for me, it's helped me focus on getting back into playing music, instead of lusting after every new keyboard that hits the market and wondering what new features it has to offer to help me sound better.
I've had far too many to count over the past 15 or so years (and I've enjoyed every one of them) but now I'm back to where I started, playing piano ( digital this time round) , but, with one exception, I have omb/laptop/softsynths for when I want to play with arranger functions.
Best part is, this arranger is totally upgradeable (or fine as ), ie add new sounds, update arranger software , upgrade computer , upgrade controller. In short, one doesn't need to chuck out the baby with the bathwater everytime one wants to improve the system.

Thanks Frank, I hope you keep posting. As long as the subject is clearly stated in the "Topic" line, I doubt whether most members really mind, they can just skip it and go on to the next topic.

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:

frank,you are a very humble man,but those of us that have been on this site for a long time have gotten to know you and your intentions,for the benefit of the newer members of this site frank was the instigator of the way to go to get much more proffessional sounds from their systems,rather than keep buying new keyboards and not being satisfied, and by testing out the new software and offering advice to the proffessionals on this site,we have many proffessionals in many fields on this site and frank is certainly one of them, mike

Frank,

I hope that you know how much I appreciate everything that I've learned as a result of you sharing your knowledge and experiences with software based arrangers and systems.

I joined this forum after I replaced my ancient Korg M1 with an arranger because I thought I could learn something about arrangers and whether they would be relevant to what I wanted to do. By applying some of the info I got here, I learned that a hardware arranger was a great choice for me for live work, and a good scratch pad for studio work. After all of this, I realized I wanted a more complete solution for the studio.

This is where you helped me so much Frank. I learned a lot from you, and as a direct result I became inspired to research further and try to learn more so that I could build a system that suited my needs in the studio.

I consider both of my computer setups to be hybrids of amazing synths and arrangers. I hope everyone will understand if I don't stress this each time I make a new post or reply to a thread about softsynths. The fact that they are hybrids and that they are more flexible than any current hardware solution when it comes to adding new functions or sounds keeps me interested enough to discuss software.

I think everything has it's place. Most if not all here share similar interests in certain areas, but also we are interested in different things. As for me, I wouldn't care if I never saw another "my arranger vs all the others" post, but that doesn't mean that they aren't valid or uesful to others.

Here is another way to look at it. A hardware based arranger player might want to know if the piano sounds better on a Tyros or PA1x. Or maybe should he / she get a module to increase his / her sounds ? In the same way, I might want to know if the piano sound is better in the sgm128 soundfont or in the Fluid 3 soundfont. Or maybe should I get a dedicated sample set instead ? Is there a lot of difference between the two questions ?

AJ


[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 03-16-2005).]

Thank you for your kind and thoughtful comments.

Frank, I really don't think there is any
connection between discussing software solutions and the forum slowdown.
I had requested at least twice, a little over
a year ago, for a separate Synthzone Software Arranger Forum, and was ignored.
No one is wasting ANYONE'S time - c'mon that's ridiculous. Apoligize for what?
We(all of us), especially you, are providing
very crucial information for the 100% software arranger solution. And the final pieces are all falling into place. We are truly almost there.


[This message has been edited by Vquestor (edited 03-18-2005).]

Frank,

Another ditto to the many comments above. I haven't the slightest interest in software driven arrangers or most anything re: to the subject only because I know I will most likely not be able to afford it. However, I have read many of your posts and feel that your expertise is a valuable asset to this forum. Yes, my main interest is re: to yamaha arranger keyboards because that is what I have and can afford - but keep up your postings on "your" expertise as I'm sure there are many on this forum that have an interest.

vc

------------------
Vern

Frank: Sometimes we forget to let our friends know how much we enjoy the opportunity to hear about their problems, accomplishments or just plain curiosity about any given subject on this board. Like others, I have not yet had the opportunity to explore the world of softsynths. That does not mean that the subject is not interesting or may be of future value to me or others. Thank you for your interesting posts and for reminding us about our perceived insensitivity. Stay with us and continue this dialog. RICE

Just to clarify a little, I went WAY beyond what I needed to spend for my system. Much of it is because I have a serious gear acquisition issue (lol), but also because I love analog synths in general and specifically I sooo wanted a CS80 when it was in production.

That said, I have acquired literally dozens of modeled synths ( including some excellent freeware ) and all of the rest of the system, which includes hosts, programs, samples, effects, and GM based modules for a good bit less than the CS80 cost when it was new.

For simplicity during live play, the system can and does becomes very streamlined. So, here is cost of the basic system I recently used for live play ( without the add-ons ):

Laptop: $1250... for mine anyway. If you already have one, the rest can be done very inexpensively.

Arranger software: One man Band - $39 USD. ( the current version is $59 I think ).

Software: Midi Thruway - to link Chainer to OMB- Free.

Xlutop Chainer: $ 49. There is also a freeware one I just saw yesterday at KVR that hosts multiple effects. I d/l'd it but haven't tried it yet.

Soundfonts: sgm 128 - free
magic sf ver2 - free
cadenza sf- free
also a few other free and commercial ones, none over 99 Usd

Effects : Kjaerhus series - Reverb, Chorus, Delay, Tube effect, etc - Free

Voxengo - EQ and stereo simulation - Free

All in one module for lead voices : Luxonix Ravity - $139.00

Oh yes, the controller: I use my Motif ES, but there are good controller out there for a couple hundred dollars that I would use instead if I didn't have the ES.

Most of us already have at least one midi ready kb and a computer to work with....

Once again, much thanks to FLR, whom without I would either still either know nothing of vst arrangers, or would still be in my infancy with it.

AJ

And now.... because I can type very quickly and very poorly all at the same time, once again....



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 03-19-2005).]