Actually the post title should have said: EQ:How much do you need to change IF at all from place to place?

And if you need to change it what are the biggest changes. What kind of room requires what?

Or do you find you set it up one way and leave it alone?

As long as we're talking about sound, what about speaker placement? I know there are different ways for different reasons.

For example, it appears in Gary Diamonds "before" pic that his speakers are in front of him. Wow, that seems like that would have been a tough time hearing that way.

I see The Pro in a recent pic placed his Motion Sound directly behind him. I am wondering how that works out. If the volume that is needed out on the floor would blast the player away?

Also I keep thinking the guys that seem to need built in speakers. I'm thinking their PA speakers placed in the right place would do it. I'll bet they've tried it. I would love to hear their ideas on this one.

So in a nutshell, just wondering about how things can be made to sound best to the player and the audience.

Does anybody not use speaker stands.

Just wondering.

Best
Scott

[This message has been edited by Scott Langholff (edited 10-04-2003).]

Hi Scott,

Loooong time ago, when I was playing organ through a Leslie 760 Speaker, it was positioned right behind me. (sounded perfect for me and the audience) In that setup we were using separate PA for vocals in front of us. (monitor speakers on the floor)

Now while using the SD1 keyboard, 2 Mackie SRM450's (on stands) and a Sub-speaker :
The 450's are positioned at the left and right side of my singer and me. (Not in front, not behind) We use the same two SRM's as PA-speakers AND monitor......

The sub-low is right in the middle of us on the floor of course and I use it as 'table'for the (Samsonite) case containing
Voiceworks and mixing console..

To build up our setup takes only 5-10 minutes. The is no need to use/change EQ's because the Mackie's sound great in all environments.

I expect the guys that use Motion Sound systems use this only for keyboard/organ amplification and NOT the vocals etc. ?

Roel

Hi Scot, I'm siting in a Holiday Inn, in Lake Havasu City Arz. writting this. I gotta say, this forum is addicting.

My equipment: 2 JBL 15'eons, 2 JBL 10'eons
Speaker stands, Mackie mixer, Mini Disk player, Studio Voclizer. What I use depends on the job and the needs.
I use tone balance (EQ) witn my Mackie mixer only--The settings depend on the room I'm playing in. In the beginning of the evening the room is normally colder, this means a brighter sound, I adjust. Later on, the room as it becomes warmer, the sound becomes muddy, I adjust.

I have always used my speakers on each side towards rear. They pointed slightly towards the middle so I can hear my voice and instrument. Bass sounds travel equally in any direction, high sounds do not, they're very much like a water hose, go they in the direction you point them. If they are not pointed in my direction, I hear only the deep tones--NG.
I am now using the internal speakers in my KN7000, thanks to Scottee Yee, now my speaker placement can be put where they are most effective.
Before using the internal speakers, I feel that I struggled to hear my voice and get a good balance.

IMHO---Cheers, John C.

Some adjustment to the room e.q. is sometimes necessary. Yesterday I played a nursing home at 2:30 which had tile floors and glass windows all around. Last night I played a carpeted lounge at the country club. The nursing home required less high-end e.q. The cc needed the bass AND highs pumped up in order for the sound to project since there was not much hard surfaces to bounce the sound.
You have to use your ears.
For small jobs where high volume isn't necessary, I try to position the mains where I can hear them. When it's necessary to pump large volumes of music, it's best to be behind the mains and use some sort of monitors, either the keyboard speakers, earbuds, or a seperate monitor system.
DonM

Glass walls, tiled floors, vaulted ceilings bounce sound back and forth all over a room. Not only do you have to adjust EQ, but, in many cases the reverb. Some rooms have built in reverb and need no help from your amp.
Eddie

Monitoring from internal speakers has become addicting, and as such, made the decision for me, as to where I place the mains. If I cannot hear well...nothinhg goes right, so a monitor is paramount. As long as I hear the product, the main speakers can go where they are most effective.
( How DID the Beatles do it??? Especially with all the screaming Must've made for a Hard Day's listening ! )

As for EQ - you have to be aware of changes from room to room. My new Drive Rack PA processor has memory locations that I have set up for different types of rooms and that gives me a starting point that I can work with. For smaller jobs where I use minimal equipment, the Master Graphic in the PRS21k comes in handy. I rarely make adjustments in the course of a performance unless the capacity changes or the volume increases sharply. Mostly, I adjust at the beginning and leave it at that.

The best advice i can give anyone about is EQ this:
Less is better. If you need to adjust, try CUTTING frequencys first. You get the same result from a midrange cut than you do with a high and low end boost. That way the headroom stays high, and the signal is less noisy. Adding highs induces hissssssssss...
Before you make that little smile shape in the graphic EQ....thry bringing the middle sliders DOWN a bit and make the shape that way. It's a better approach that boosting the powerful low end, and the cutting high end. Many sound systems are damaged by improper EQ usage, so be careful. An EQ can ask for up to 15DB MORE of power from an amp, and you may not have that kind of power or headroom to spare. That's where harmful distortion comes in and takes the life out of your mix. Use EQ with great care, and as sparingly as you can to achive the desired result.

Much of the above I agree with, however, as you can see from the rig photos posted, my speakers are now on either side and a couple feet behind me. This makes for great monitoring, something I didn't have with the old system unless I hauled along my 12-inch monitor speaker.

Now, I hear everything the audience hears, and I rarely have to change the settings for the environment, that is unless I hit one of those rooms that is similar to playing in a high-school gymnasium. Under those circumstances, sounds bounce around like a ping-pong ball, therefore, I usually bring up the bass, bring down the high and mid range sounds, and hope for the best. A lot of the nursing home and retirement center jobs present this problem.

As for the 2000's onboard EQ, I essentially set that up like a smiley face and it does a wonderful job at most venues. On the Barbettas, the mid and high EQ settings are both set at the half-way setting, while the low is set at two-thirds, which eliminates any possibility of vocal feedback, even when I walk directly in front of the speaker just a foot away.

Good Luck,

Gary

Well it helps that I enjoy hearing myself! Actually my situation is different from many because I play instrumental music only, and my audiences usually expect me to play at a level that is comfortable for them to be able to talk to each other over. Even when they pick up and get to dancing, I really don't play as loud as others acts typically (but I can). Also, since I don't sing then feedback isn't a problem. And finally where and how I use the KP-200s is actually how it is recommended to be used by the manufacturer. So using the KP-200s behind me works out great for me but your mileage may vary.

In some cases I use my pair of JBL EONs G2 10" when space is tight but the speaker placement is still the same: behind me and pointing towards my ears. In large outdoor gigs I use the 10's sitting on their matching subs for the front speakers and the KP-200s behind me as a monitor. I avoid speaker stands indoors - I believe they tend to point the sound into the audiences face, whereas I prefer a more ambient approach and like the speakers to point more towards the ceiling and the sound bounce down when possible.

I have EQ settings programmed into my 9000 Pro for either the JBL or the Motion Sound speaker setups. I then tweak slightly to accomodate the room.

Hi John C

Are you vacationing or performing? I have a "snowbird" aunt and uncle in Lake Havasu.

The Pro: Since I have two JBL EON 10G2's I was particularly interested in your answer. Isn't the sound and volumeyou get with those Eons essentially the same as the Motion Sound?

Ok, I'm at work right now, talk to you all later.

Scott Langholff

[Are you vacationing or performing? I have a "snowbird" aunt and uncle in Lake Havasu.

Scott, I'm on vacation. I have not found speakers I like better than the Eon 10's
The sound is good. But, I can't push them too much. As good as the bass response is, it needs help when things get loud.

I love the look of two speakers, on stands, on rither side of me.

I'm still thinking of adding a bass woofer, (did I spell that right?) Then, the Eon 10's
could carry mids and highs with great clarity--sound good--gotta try it.

Take care, John C.