Hi
We all have constraints on finances, room sizes etc, but if Money, Room and anything else was no problem, what would your ideal set up be? If you want one for gigging and one for home then that’s fine also.
Here is mine.

Hammond B3 Organ. (Why have samples when you can have the real thing)
Kurzweil K2600 sampling Keyboard. (Still the best Piano and String sounds)
Wersi EX1 Expander. (All other Arranger/Mixer/Recording functions)
2 x Wersi T9000 Active Speakers. (Ideal match for Expander and Keyboard)
Dual Channel Leslie Cabinet. (You still can’t beat the original rotating sound)
Result. Pure Heaven

Bill

ORGAN

Ginder and a monkey

Bebop

It isn't made yet...but here are some guiding suggestions for Roland to make my ultimate...

Start with the G70, fix any bugs that may hinder it from being the best current arranger on the market.

Give me the features from the G1000 that are missing on the current G70.

Add a large HD, internally[40gig]..

Add the sampler from the FantomX series, with the Audio recording tracks[8 stereo] also from the Fantom Audio exspansion.

Add a second mic input, and stereo inputs also..

Add a quality MP3 player/recorder on board..One that will quickly search as the G70 does with SMF's and Styles.

Give the MP3 module editing capabilities[transpose etc].

Make sure the midi capabilities of the G1000 are added[dual sets of midi connections, that are routable]..

Allow the assignment of multi channels ,transmitted to the internal vocalizer..

Add a CDR/CDRW/DVDR/
DVDRW drive.

Maintain the quality chasis and componets, and keep the weight to 40lbs..

Just get started on this ,I am runnung out of time..

BTW,,mark my words you will see this board next year..

Fran, Ketron already has much of what you ask.
Maybe their new SD, when and if it comes, will get there.
DonM

I always liked the C3 myself ( "Church Organ" model ) although mechanically it is said to be identical to the B3. I'd love to have one in the studio, with the dual channel Leslies, but I think I'm going eventually spring for some Leslies anyway for my B4 software. I'm guessing after I get past the physical and visual differences, soundwise it probably
isn't going to make a lot of difference to me.

I'd love to have one of each of my favorite classic analogs and wave synths, including a CS80, Moog Modular, Arp2600, Oberheim Matrix 12, Korg Wavestation, Prophet 5, amongst others. What I don't want is to have to repair them... they are all getting on in age... so I guess I'm already as close as I am going to get with the likes of the software emulations from NI, Arturia, and several others. I wouldn't mind having one real one though, and if something falls into my lap... Til then, the "classics" are destined to remain on my laptop.

They don't make the arranger I want, and maybe they never will. I want the standard functions that todays top enders have, but with the ability to add custom modules that interact and can supply realistic drum patterns in the way that Jamstix does, or lay out preset patterns on complex algorithims that can be modified in real time, ala Korg Karma and to a lesser exten Jammer software.

I'd also like one that has add on plug in capabilities, like the 9000 pro had with the AN, VL, Drum etc add on boards. The downfall there was that many of the editing functions were inacessible from withoin the keyboard, so a computer hookup was necessary in order to accomplish any real editing.

AJ

I don’t know if anybody has noticed this, but whenever somebody with a Roland mentions something they would like, other members mention the Ketron, and likewise whenever Ketron owners want something, Roland is always mentioned.
Its even more fascinating to me, as if Wersi instruments had not been around when I was looking for a keyboard, it would have come down to a coin toss between Roland and Ketron keyboards.
However whichever instrument you play, enjoy.

Bill

Dear Abacus;

What Wersi keyboard do you have? ( if I use your nic as an indication I would think an Abacus? If so which model?

I don't know if you have compared or listend to other arrangers ( i.e. tyros, g-70, sd1 plus, genesis XP) What is your opinion of the wersi styles?

Regards;
BlkNotes

My ideal setup would be a single keyboard with 76 good keys and speakers (40 Watts shoudl be enough for personal monitoring or small room), under 40 lbs (preferrably less) in a light-weight metal case (titanium or magnesium alloy) for durability. It should contain arranger functions, ability to convert styles from all current models or convert MIDI or audio files to styles (take a portion of audio track and shift in in pitch and harmony with Variphrase-like techniques). Has to have a large hard disk (use what is available for laptops, e.g 100 GB 7200 RPM) to do digital recordings and store sample files. Sampling is not important (few of us know how to do samping well) but the ability to load standard format samples for playback is crucial - must allow expanding RAM to current standards (e.g. 512 MB minimum, up to 2GB). It has to have TRUE 128 note polyphony, and allow playback of audio/MP3 files from the disk.

Should have at least two individually controllables sets of outputs (one for mains, one for monitoring), and four inputs, at least one with XLR input, which allow using internal amplification and effects for a small combo (a guitar and two vocals). Any one channel should be routable to a good quality vocal harmonizer.
Also, a firewire or USB 2.0 output should send all of the solo, input, and arranger tracks out individually for multi-track digital recording on the PC. USB 2.0 master and slave connections shoudl allow connecting to the PC and/or a USB external storage device.

It should have a user friendly interface, a combination of Tyros and Roland Fantom (selection buttons UNDER the screen), and no touch-screens, please. If it has faders, they should be motorized (so that you can look at them and see the settings of the flutes or volume parts, instead of having to watch the screen as you adjust the settings). The user interface should have externally mappable buttons, so that you can add, say a USB PC keyboard, and map each button to a particular function, for more interactive single-button-push response.

Obviously, my ideal setup does not exist (perhaps a Mediastation, though I have never seen or heard it, so can not judge the sounds/styles capabilities). It is also not likely that any one manufacturer will create it.

A more likely scenario is that someone will come up with an expandable controller in an agreed form factor, so that you can have have good quality keys and drop in, say, ketron MIDJAY for arranger functions, and, for example, Yamaha Motif XRack for sounds, and still end up having to carry a single physical device (not a bunch of rack-mounted gear which is hard to reach and a chore to interconnect with loose wires every time you set up.

Regards,
Alex

Alex,

Both the Wersi and Lionstracs Mediastation X-76 do just about everything you described although they both weigh far more than 40 lbs. The Wersi has a fantastic set of built in speakers, the Lionstracs does not have a speaker option. Both can play MP3, MIDI, WAV, Karaoke, Video, and sample files from GIGA and AKAI as well as offer sampling. Each also has 24 BIT DAW style audio recording of 100+ tracks in addition to multitrack sequencing. Both workstations feature extensive editing including BPM and pitch shift in real time and have numerous audio inputs and outputs.

The Wersi is quite expensive but its a great workstation and I feel worth the money. The Lionstracs X-76 keeps getting better every day as Lionstracs is constantly adding new features and updating the software with impressive support like I've never seen from another manufacturer. Lionstracs is working on updates that will allow the user to use streaming samples with the arranger features. Imagine a 1 GB drum kit along with a 4 GB Piano, 2 GB guitar, 2 GB Bass, and 4 GB symphonic strings doing backing tracks for your arranger section. No other arranger or workstation can even touch that!

GIGA files played on the Mediastation sound awesome and being able to store multi GB worth of GIGA sounds on the hard drive is a huge plus. Check out the Mediastation and the Wersi if you have a dealer near you. Both should surprise you as to their capabilities.

[This message has been edited by Ensnareyou (edited 09-17-2005).]

My ideal set-up would be a 76 key keyboard about 30LBS.
It will have at least a 120gig hard drive, a gig of ram that could be expanded to 4 or 5, a full sampler and sample reader, a comprehensive sequencer with at least 24 audio tracks, good and realistic sounds even the general midi bank, the ability to use VST and other third part sound libraries, full sound editing, styles and a easy to use style sequencer where you can use audio loops, lots of effects, full EQ for each track whether sequencer or styles CD and DVD player and writer, full midi implementation, 4 midi in out threw, 4 USB 2.0 ports Bluetooth for wirelessly connecting to other devices and for transferring files, pitch and mod joystick, it should be able to have a multi foot pedal switch connected to it, 10 audio ins and outs (2 should be XLR with power) so you will be able to get a different out for vocals and 2 head phone jacks. It should be a fast machine. I should be able to connect a PC keyboard and a computer monitor.

These are just some of the major things I think a real keyboard in today’s market should have.


I could name 4 things off the top of my head it should not have
internet connection,
touch screen
speakers
and a floppy drive.


Well that was a nice dream….. Back to reality.

Although maybe in the next 3 years such a keyboard would exist.


[This message has been edited by to the genesys (edited 09-17-2005).]

A quick run down on my dream ROMpler;

73 keys-Not 61(too short)not 76(uneven) not 88(If I want to go surfing,I'll go to CA) 73 keys-that's six octaves from C to C -a very *neat* arrangement and enough room to stretch out without "stretching out".

World Class Orchestral soundset with everything from A-Z as far as sounds are concerned.World Class everything else too,for that matter.And enough variety to cover any situation on planet earth.For example:Every type of mute trumpet,snare drums from piccolo to parade,timpani with soft to hard mallets,felt and wood types.
I want an electric guitar that shreds as well as brass that doesn't sound like car horns.In short,something a micron away from perfection.

All of the right holes in all of the right places. Stereo Outs,aux outs,Headphones,expression pedal,sustain pedal(dedicated)Midi IN/OUT/THRU, breath controller,USB,50 watt 3 way speakers,Dual Compact Flash bays,(On the front of keyboard,NOT the back!)one for loading new sounds,the other for sequencing,(no damn factory batteries!!!)16 track sequencer,(Pattern Based like the Alesis MMT-8) 16 part multi-timbral,128 poly,6"x4" Backlit LCD display-royal blue with powder blue background(like Casios WK-1350)Auto-save function,5 position Global Reverb,Tempo mapping,100,000 note sequencer, 5 position Global Compression and stuff I've forgotten or haven't thought of yet!!

Notice that I did not include the following:

40g Harddrive-Too much of a pain-I never heard of flash cards crashing plus there's no hard disc recording on this unit anyway.

Any type of synthesis-This is a ROMpler-an instrument for people who want to work on their music and NOT on tweaking crap to death.

Insert and mastering FX-Too much menu digging and/or buttons/knobs/sliders on the face of the keyboard.You might find this hard to believe,but reverb and compression are the two most indispensible FX there are.Other FX like delay and chorus can be achieved by velocity tapping and detuning on the keyboard.Other FX like flange and phase,in addition to reverb and chorus would be incorporated into the generous soundbank presets.The soundbank, therefore, would take the largest amount of time to figure out so virtually all of the bases would be covered,in one form or another.
Distortion and overdrive would be covered in the Elec.Guitar samples,Chorus could go over some of the piano samples.Also there would be stereo presets of piano,rhodes,acoustic guitars as well.The Heavy thinking would be done ,so all you need do is concentrate on your MUSIC!

And all of the above has budgetary concerns as well-I would hope that this particular model would only cost a thousand+ so it could find it's way into the hands of LOTS of cash strapped,working musicians.

This has been a pet project of mine for quite some time and I'm not through yet....




[This message has been edited by casiobot (edited 09-17-2005).]

I do agree that featurewise these two may come close to what I want - I would even settle for no speakers if the kb had most of the other features I need.

Not having a dealer locally is certainly a problem for me (or for those manufacturers who could have earned my business). Of all the major keyboard makers, I can only find Yamaha and Korg in the local shops. I understand that some 40 miles away there is a store which has a Genesys, though I have never had a chance to make my way out there. We used to have a store which carried Ketron, but it went out of business. One store had a G70, but going there is like visiting a car dealership - the salespeope swoop down on you and try to twist your arm into paying the exorbitant price for it ($5000) - in a word, a high stress experience. My situation is not unique, even though I live in the 5th largest metro area in the US.

I think that many of the less popular and underrepresented distributors, such as Liontracs and Wersi (and perhaps Ketron), would do well to start selling directly to the public (or perhaps through a dealer), and offer a resonable return policy (e.g. 30-45 days) - retailers do that, why not the distributors? I would not buy an expensive instrument without being sure that it will suit my needs, and I have found that a some instruments are implemented differently than others (e.g. for some reason, chord recognition on Korg does not resond to my fingerings as well as that on the Roland). The only way to try it is to do it at home, where I can put my time into testing it, not in the store where my time is limited, and people are peering over my shoulder.

Regards,
Alex

Hello BlkNotes
Your quite correct I play the Abacus running OAS 6 software. (And looking forward to the release of OAS 7 software, £150 for a virtually new instrument)
I have compared most of the keyboards you mentioned, as in the UK we have Organ and Keyboard festivals, were most manufactures are represented, as these are mostly week long events, it means you have plenty time to try all the different keyboards and Organs, with no pressure to buy, but if you do decide to buy most manufactures give special deals to those attending the festivals.
The styles in OAS 6 can contain up to 2 drum kit tracks and 5 to 7 (Depending on model) sound tracks, the styles consist of 4 variations, 2 fill ins, 2 intro/endings, with real time sliders for volume control of the various tracks, (Midi files can also be assigned to real Time sliders) Akai samples and VST instruments (With the use of the inbuilt Cubasis software) can also be used in the styles. (OAS 7 will include an integrated VST Host and Giga sampler, so I think? the styles will be able to use these Giga sounds as well)
One of the best features are the Hybrid styles called Real Drums, which integrates a Wav file recording of a Real Drummer playing a Real Drum Kit into the style sequence.
The styles themselves are I think done in house, rather then by a dedicated style producing company, and so some of them don’t sound as sophisticated as other keyboards.
The Best styles I have heard on any keyboard (To my ears) are the styles on the Roland G70, Tyros styles I find over complicated and very song specific, and so to me are not very impressive, the other instruments you mention are, in there own ways similar to Wersi styles.
Hope this helps.

Bill

Casiobot. 76 keys is perfect..It allows the low E as with a bass[for we left hand bass players].
Keyboards starting with a low C, usually waste the lowest 4 keys..

I think I am as close to my ultimate setup as it can get.
Still missing a 5.1 surround package from Tannoy but the rest is in place. Just getting some unwanted noise and hum. Working on that though. Oh yeah, almost forgot about the vocal booth. That's going to be built in just a few monhths.
But here's my setup. Or most of it anyway:

Keys:
Motif ES8, Roland AX7.
Korg O1/W, Yamaha DX7, Technics SXWSA-1. Use them mostly as controllers but on occasion tweak up a sound or two that I just throw in the mix. For the fun of it.

Rack:
Yamaha FS1R, Kawai K5000R, Waldorf Micro Q, Novation NOVA, Roland JD990, Yamaha TX816 (love that one).

COmputers:
Mac G5 dual 2.7Ghz processor.
Mac G4 933 Mhz.
Mac 7100/80 (still running Pro TOols on it so that's why I keep it around ).

DAW:
Logic Audio Pro 7
Logic Audio 3.0 (for the old Mac)

Interfaces/cards:
MOTU 828 Firewire.
Digi 001 (soon to be traded in for Digi 002 to use with TIger OS)

Old Digidesign PT Project and TDM cards with 888 interface. (for old Mac).

Speakers:
Tannoy System 600. Only four of them for now. Just to fake 5.1.

Guitars:
WAY TOO MANY

Mics:
Don't ask. I think I see a few around me now. But my favorite ones are still at the old studio (forgot to mention that I just moved).

Plug-ins FX:
Nope. Not going to write that much. Most NI stuff. Gmeadia M-Tron, Gmeadia Oddity, Arturia Moog Modular V, General Vibe Vector Sector, Waldorf PPG 2.3, Waldorf Attack, USB Ultra Focus. THere's more but I'm not into typing that much.

So yeah. Almost there. Just getting frustrated with some noise issues. Working on solving it though.

-ED-

Yea...B-3, leslie, SD-1 on top. On the right hand, a suitcase Rhodes, with a good digital piano on top. 16 chanel powered board with effects, 2 15's with horns, two 12" floor monitors.

Naturally, I'd have to have a house job, with all the weight and pieces.

Russ