I've decided I want this board. I have a 3K and a Roland E-60 for partial trade. Anyone interested in working with me?

Thanks,

zuki

Correction: That's a Roland E-600

Already?........why?

I'm curious as well.

I'll tell you the Tyros2 is a one great keyboard as is the Roland G70 I recently purchased. My intention was to sell the Tyros 2 and keep the G70. At this point I don't want to part with either, they are both great boards. If only Yamaha would make a 76 key, ah never mind! I was just day dreaming



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 08-21-2007).]

The small foot print and 76 keys is a pleasure to play on the Sd1+......

Seems the E600 is making the rounds. What's up? On paper it looks so good.

------------------
www.cassponline.com/

Zuki,

I found the Tyros2 much too heavy and complicated(set up)for a busy gigging schedule.

That's why I went with the PSR-S900.

What's on the Tyros2 that made you favor it?

Ian

Although I also sold my T2 for the same navigational & other reasons I have to agree with Ian......many of the features which are good are more suited for home/studio applications & not needed for everyday gigging......you really need to access what YOU as a performer Really needs & forget what everyone else is doing.

I agree with Ian.

Be careful Zuki. The Ty2 is a fantastic board, and has many advantages over the S900.

But for your needs, it might have some disadvantages. You're the guy who does over 500 shows a year.

The Ty2 doesn't have the onboard speakers.
The Ty2 is heavier and bulkier than what you've been accustomed to.

If you are going to need to set up additional monitors for every single gig, I would think twice. Let's assume that it adds 5 minutes to every gig, even though I think it would add more. That would add over 2500 minutes per year to your set up. That's one day and 18 hours a year, at the very least - probably two days a year that you will be setting up and taking down those monitors.

Good luck,

Beakybird

I think Zuki is suffering from T2 envy

Hey, I mean no disrepect to any of you fellas, but "a Tyros II is too heavy" for a busy gig schedule? Are you being serisous..., too heavy???? It weighs what 31-32 pounds..?? The T2 is what .3kg lighter than a Motif XS6? On all the forums I read regarding keyboards it's SOOOOOO rare to hear someone complain about the weight of the synths being used that weigh the same as a Tyros II, or more.

These are guys who are also in the 40's 50's, 60's.., who too have the amp and other equipment. I have to be honest..., this is the only forum I've seen where people complain about a 31-32 pound keyboard. You have to be reasonable guys. If 31-32 pounds on a keyboard is too much for you.., then I'm just lost on that one--sorry, but geez oh man.

I can't tell you the number of guys I've seen locally who gig with 61 key workstations that weigh 32 pounds or more that (again with all respect) are "older", and have no issue with the weight.

Sorry if this offends anyone, but I think it just makes a person look very "whiney" to complain about a 32 pound keyboard.

I say this because it's not like pro arrangers don't already get enough disrespect out there, it really makes the arranger community look even worse when people are complaining in open forum that a keyboard that's weighs less than a Yamaha Motif XS6 weighs too much. Again I don't mean to offend anyone, but I think this issue of weight at with arrangers is so comical.

Squeak



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 08-21-2007).]

Mini Hijack ....If it ain't the weight its the key-feel or the size, sounds, styles, speakers, shape, design, floppy, usb, support, reliability, display, joystick, 61 vs 76 keys,lenght of keys, hard drive, fills, sliders, & yes I almost forgot Color .....round & around we go where it stops nobody knows? When is anyone gonna understand its ALL A PERSONAL COMFORT....
I REPEAT A PERSONAL COMFORT ZONE each of which is totally different then the next guy....find yours & enjoy it...forget what others are doing or in many cases what they say. Why? Because its THEIR COMFORT ZONE Not Yours.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-21-2007).]

Hey I understand comfort zone man, and of course key feel, ect is understandable too, but when it comes to weight.., you really need to be reasonable. We're not talking about a 40-50 pound keyboard. It's a keyboard that weighs just over 30 lbs.

Squeak,

When you're doing several gigs a day, everyday, every bit of weight and setup hassles really becomes important.

Not one piece of my gig gear weighs over 25 lbs and it was deliberate....and I'm proud of it.

If you don't gig often( one or more per day), then I don't see what you have to base your criticisms on...just a few weeks ago you were impressed at how light the NP-30 was....now you're bitching because some of us are smart enough to use lighter gear.

Lighten up....we know what we're doing.

Ian

Ian use the gear you want.., I really don't care, but me personally..., it blows my mind to hear someone bitch about the weight of a Tyros II. If you were complaining about a G-70.., then I say yes that's debatable, but if you're gonna bitch about a keyboard that weighs less than a Motif XS6, then I say "lighten up". Sorry just my opinion.

Don't insult me in saying "you guys know what you're doing" Nothing I can't stand more than the smart ass snobbish attitude of some people here regarding the number of gigs they do against those who don't gig anymore. I gigged for years Ian. My rig probably would have put you into cardiac arrest.

Just because I don't gig anymore doesn't mean I don't have the experience in it. I can count the number of times I saw the inside of my own apartment (while giggin for years) on one hand. So what if I don't gig anymore. Last time I checked the gear has gotten a bit lighter than it was when I was into giggin full time.

I hauled around all my synths, guitars, amps, and drums. You think that was easy.., even for someone who was younger at the time? Hell no, it was a pain, but it was all about making the music man. So when I see a keyboard that does what all the Tyros II does and all of that power under 35 pounds, I say heck yeah freakin rock on man!!!!!!!!!

I just can't personally seem to understand the complaint of a Tyros II when it comes to weight. It's not like the keyboard isn't already mostly plastic.



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 08-21-2007).]

Squeak,

Answer me this....did you do a lot of gigs with a Tyros2?

If not, then where are you getting your facts?

You seem to like to put people down yourself, calling them "whiners" when you seem to be doing plenty of whining about their choice of gear.

I'm not questioning your experience...just your logic.

Ian

I'm not whining about choice of gear Ian. I don't care if you perform with a Tyros II or a Casio lighted keyboard. I just think that given the choices out there and what all these pro arrangers are doing today, you have to be more reasonable in terms of weight.

I would have loved to have a Tyros 2 when I was giggin Ian. Try hauling around a Korg M1, Korg Trinity, Yamaha SY-77, electric guitar, bass guitar, acoustic guitar, a Pearl Drum set, and all the amps and fixins. I played multiple instruments man. I was always pulling this crap in and out of my van. I hated it man, but I loved the music.

That's why it's so hard for me to accept complaints about a keyboard that weighs 32 pounds that in essence replaces all the crap I used to haul around. What you guys have available today in the pro arranger world for the single musician is awesome. Everything a Tyros II can do for less than 35 pounds is amazing thing to me.

As a part-time musician I'm not slugging around my Tyros 2 everyday, but even at that I don't find it all that heavy. It's very manageable. Now the G70 is a bit of a different story but even at that weight it's still manageable. Now if I were hauling it around( G70 ) to 2 or 3 gigs a day I may have a different answer, but I could manage with the T2



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 08-21-2007).]

You have to understand Ian.., I'm not the only guy who hauled around that much equipment out there. Back then we didn't have mega voices.., and all these crazy velocity switching sounds.

When I was gigging.., if you wanted a sound like a Yamaha mega voice or SA voice, you either had the real instrument with the talent behind it or ya went without.

These arrangers today are freakin crazy with all the things they're doing. You've amazing guitar strumming that sound so realistic. You've got velocity switched drums that with some makers have awesome dynamics withint the styles that just make them jump right out at ya.

You guys really have it made today with the pro and semi pro arrangers Ian. I would think that you'd see this yourself given your history. Sorry, but it's just hard for me to swallow I guess. If I was still performing today, I without question would be using a pro arranger. I just see what all they're doing today, and every day am amazed at how far they've come, so when I see people raise issue with a 32 pound powerhouse like a Tyros II--it just confuses me.



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 08-21-2007).]

Squeak,

I used a Tyros2 for about 6 months...it was so big in it's road case that it wouldn't fit in my Honda Accord...even across the back seats when they were lowered.

The optional speaker system didn't impress me at all, and it was fiddly to set up and take apart...and not really meant for serious gigging.

32 lbs isn't THAT heavy, but when the instrument is in a decent case (which it should be in for transporting)it was heavy and awkward.

I'm all for quality, but it doesn't(or shouldn't) come at an expense of more weight...not in this day and age.

That's why I use the S900...it gets the job done, and it is MUCH less hassle.

Ian

BTW...I got my NP-30...sure enough...no adaptor...still waiting for it...should be here any day.

I totally understand the added weight and size when it's in the case. TRUST ME I KNOW THAT. A Korg M1 and Yamaha SY-77 aren't the most enjoyable things to put in a nice heavy duty case and haul around. Agian Ian, I dont want you to think I'm attacking you because I'm not. I just don't understand the weight issue with some keyboards given what all they do now.


Where'd you get your NP-30 from? It appears that many of the online retailers are sending them out without adapters here in the US. I've even heard some trying to charge the buyers extra after not getting it (like they should have)

Ohhh Zuki I apologize for hi-jacking your thread man. Sorry.

Ian are going to use the NP-30 as a controller for the S900?

In Canada the adaptor is optional...I got my NP-30 from Yamaha Canada.

I guess Yamaha's logic(?) is that if the instrument can be powered by batteries, then the adaptor is considered an accessory.

My logic is that they should at least include the batteries if there is no adaptor...how else can a person even try it when they get it?

Dumb policies for sure.

The darn thing sure is light...can't wait to try it.

Ian

PS...Sorry Zuki...didn't mean to stray OT.

how you likin that keyfeel Ian? Different isn't it? You'll get used to it real fast.

ohhhhh Zuki, not sure if you've played a Tyros II, but OMG!!!!! The key action on the Tyros II is like butter baby! The action is smooth. The keys alone on the Tyros II really are a great part of what made my audition of the keyboard so enjoyable.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 08-21-2007).]

I intend to try it out on the S900, but I don't plan using it that way on gigs.

It will be really cool for laying down piano tracks when multitracking a tune on the S900.

Squeak...the keys are posh...they don't reflect the price of the unit.

Now, we best stop hijacking poor Zuki's post....sorry buddy.

Ian

Let me begin by saying that I gig daily with Tyros2 and have no complaints about its weight.

That said, I can fully appreciate the benefits the S900 offers over Tyros2 for daily giggers. It's not only the weight but the keyboard's dimensional shape & footprint size that must be considered as well. In this regard, the S900 has a clear advantage because it doesn't have sharp corner like Tyros2 and it's smaller footprint size meets the ability to fit into a smaller compact more easily manuveurable case.

If I did'nt already own a Tyros2, I probably would gone with an S900 for it's smaller light weight advantage and the built in 'monitor' speakers, and because it (like Tyros2) supports lyrics text (.txt) display, eliminating need for music charts/sheets or laptop/Musicpad pro display onstage altogether. If quick responsive keyboard feel is important, and your keyboard playing style includes detailed pianistic articulation, then I recommend Tyros2 over the S900. On S900, I feel like I'm fighting the sluggish non-weighted keys when attempting to play quick detailed articulated melodic passages, whereas on Tyros2, the keys respond far more quickly allowing for more expressive solo playing. The other Tyros2 advantage is unlimited new (instrument) voice expandability, especially with all the 'wav sampled' instrument voice offered from Pemo & World of Keys , and others; and the much larger brighter tilt screen, which affords improved screen visiablity outdoors, especially with an add on screen shade which can be attached to the tilt screen allowing for adjustment to keep the sun from hitting the screen. Other Tyros2 features missing on the S900 are 3 RT voices vs 2 on S900 and 3 foot controller pedal outputs vs 2 on S900. For me, a minimum of 3 foot pedal assignment outputs is essential: (1)damper, (2)fill to self, and (3)vocalizer on/off. That said, you can expand the S900's foot pedals output from 2 to 3 by purchasing a midi assignable foot pedal controller from Midi Solutions . In fact, on my Tyros2, I utilize a 4 pedal foot controller unit, with the 4th pedal assigned via midi. Here is a link to another thread where I discuss discuss the midi assignable unit in more detail: here .

In conclusion, utilize the keyboard that best suit YOUR indiviual requirements (not mine, or anyone else's), while realizing that no one keyboard is perfect for everyone. That said, let's all continue to do what we love . . . making music.

Scott

One important part of the frequent gigger's arsenal is a backup.

If the S900 will do the job, then you've saved enough money (as opposed to buying a Tyros2)to buy a spare.

A broken key or switch, whatever the cause, is not something that would be fixed right away(unless you have the parts and ability to DIY)and could very likely be a loss of gigs.

Most busy performers may be able to swing the price of two S900's but I do believe that two Tyros (Tyrii ?)would be beyond a reasonable budget for gear.

Regarding the Tyros2's action (terrific BTW) as opposed to the S900's...it's a matter of adjustment IMO....although the T2's keyboard is really nice for piano stuff.

If Zuki doesn't need a backup...then it's gonna be a T2 for the man...deluxe all the way.

Good luck on your quest, Zuki.

Ian

Three things stand out here... The weight, the key-feel. and the sound of an arranger.

As of yet, I've played nothing that excels at all three... And for someone as picky as I am about the sound and feel of a keyboard, I have to admit that, of the three, the weight is the only one I am prepared to compromise about.

Others have a different set of priorities. But once you sit down (or stand up) to play a keyboard, it's weigh at that point is moot. The only thing that matters then is how it sounds, and how it FEELS and responds to you as a player. And THAT is the only time the audience is in front of you...

Ian has often said that you get used to the feel on a PSR... You can get 'used' to a MicroKorg But would you WANT to? If a better feeling keyboard was available with no weight penalty, I am SURE he would prefer to play something better. The fact that he even contemplated, yet alone purchased an NP-30 for home use demonstrates that he IS aware that there ARE bigger and better keyboards, and they have their uses. The fact is, the better the keyboard feel and response, the better you play. Why would anyone WANT to lug around a keyboard he KNEW he could play better on if only it had a better action?

But weight is his priority, pure and simple. And that is fine. But it comes at too high a cost for me. WHAT keybed I play on, and how it sounds are things I just can't justify giving up for the sake of a few pounds saved. I gig 7+ times a week here in season, and yes, it's a pain , but so far, not the slightest desire to get a PSR...!

squeak is right to a certain extent. Sales numbers for Motif7's and FantomX7's are several orders of magnitude higher than arrangers, yet you rarely hear a single complaint on the WS forums about the weight of these things. Does this mean the are all body-builders, or none of them gig regularly? I really don't think so I think they have all just decided that there are FAR more important things to worry about, and are prepared to accept that any significant weight loss would be accompanied by a significant build quality and key-feel loss. And, Lo and behold! They don't seem to have a problem with it...!

Why are arranger players SO willing to make this compromise, when virtually no other musicians ARE?

Just one person's opinion, yada yada yada, YMMV, Objects in mirror may be lighter than they appear...

Just saw the last reply before mine, Ian...

Let's be honest. How many here at SZ actually have TWO of everything they gig with? You, and who else? Darn few, I'd be prepared to say.

You have to remember, MOST of us have to pay store price for our gear, we don't get discounts for being demonstrators or dealers. Two S900's is STILL beyond the reach of many, even regular gigging pros (got a better use for a spare $1600 plus tax or shipping!).

I just get a keyboard built so well, with an ATA flight case to protect it, that I don't HAVE to worry about needing a spare!

MOST of us gigging for a living don't have two of everything. Donny got ONE SD1, Fran got ONE G70, zuki got ONE of each of his arrangers. It's a rare member here with TWO of anything!

--------------------------------------------
squeak is right to a certain extent. Sales numbers for Motif7's and FantomX7's are several orders of magnitude higher than arrangers, yet you rarely hear a single complaint on the WS forums about the weight of these things. Does this mean the are all body-builders, or none of them gig regularly? I really don't think so I think they have all just decided that there are FAR more important things to worry about, and are prepared to accept that any significant weight loss would be accompanied by a significant build quality and key-feel loss. And, Lo and behold! They don't seem to have a problem with it...!

Why are arranger players SO willing to make this compromise, when virtually no other musicians ARE?
--------------------------------------------

Right on Diki! That's what confuses me. You have the same age of players in pro arrangers as you do the workstations, but the issue of weight always seems to come up with the arrangers. Everything the Tyros does at only 32 pounds is impressive. When you look at what all it does do.., I think the weight of this keyboard isn't bad at all when you look at the keyboard as a whole.

Your points are well taken, Diki.

I should make it clear that I didn't purchase an NP-30...besides being curious about it's price/value, a few friends had expressed interest in trying it, so I had one sent as a demo.

If I really like it, I may buy it.

The Tyros2 issue wasn't just weight....it was also more than I needed, and a bit too large for moving in my car.

I also didn't need the WAV/sample feature, nor did I want to need to have a HD...the keyboard action didn't appeal to me very much...I like a light action...my preference over weighted/semi-weighted.

After playing the S900, even if I had the money, I wouldn't buy a Tyros2....and I'm glad I had the opportunity to try them both.

Again, I say without any hesitation...the S900 is a terrific keyboard for frequent giggers and home users alike.


Ian

Two S900s or ONE Tyros2....not a hard decision for me.

You say, "let's be honest"...does that imply that my statements are not?

Super tough road cases, or equipment built like a tank(with the ensuing weight penalty)...it can fail for many reasons, and if I gigged as much as`Zuki, I would feel much more secure with two S900s than one Tyros2...some clients don't understand that your gear needed to be repaired...they just expect results.

I do get a discount, Diki, but it's not as substantial as you might imagine...I'm only a spoke in a very big wheel.

What would you do if your G70 failed on the day of an important gig and you didn't have the parts to fix it?

In spite of what you may believe, a lot of pros carry spare gear(including backup keyboards)...it's like insurance.


Ian

I'll agree there Diki......if you take care of a Quality KB it will treat you right....yet I always have a laptop & a Zune with me for any backup that may arise on a gig...I can always run out an pick up another KB if needed without keep one in the closet doing nothing....I have never been a musical gear pack rat....I only keep what I use...the ergonomics of the KB contribute to your comfort zone also....when I had the T2 its Sharp corners ripped thru the padded cordura of my case
(bad design)....Diki makes good points on quality first...now that Im back with to a quality feel 76 key-bed between the G70 & now my Sd1+ I can never go back to 61 keys again at any weight..........

Most likely the Motif, Korg and other heavy keyboard users are playing in a band and not alone, so there's allways help in setting up.

Zuki:
I've got a Tyros 2 that I might consider selling.

Same as Donny, there, Ian... I got my songs backed up to audio, and would use another keyboard.

Until Yamaha come out with another (hopefully lighter!) 76 note arranger, this point has always been kind of moot with us, anyway. My needs MUST have a 76-er (it's integral to the way I play). You give 2 1/2 octaves to a bass split on a 61-er, that's only 2 1/2 octaves left for the RH. Pretty slim. Do it on a 76-er, you still got 3 1/2 left. MUCH more usable.

Some people (especially those not playing full piano parts on a regular basis) can make do with less. I can't. When Yamaha come out with another 76, we''ll talk again...

And I though we were done with biting each other's heads off for the slightest thing... If I thought you were being dishonest, Ian (which I don't), I would simply say that. It's an expression, for Chris' sake!

And you are right... Some pro's DO have a spare duplicate of their main axe. But many, many, many more DON'T.... They've got other keyboards, even other arrangers, sometimes. But short of major touring pros (and the tour often provides the backup), I think I can be reasonably confident in saying the large majority don't. Remember (before you get your dander up again ), I am not saying that NONE do, I am simply saying the large majority don't.

Do you disagree with this? (And I won't accuse you of calling me a liar if you do!)

Thanks for your thoughts. I think I'll explore the S900 a bit more.

Is anyone using the harmonizer in the S900?

zuki

WOW!!!!!!!!!
I can't believe I agree with Diki's every word...

Well Diki, your views and opinions are different than mine...I'm sure we can both live with it.

I don't wish to continue...this is Zuki's topic and I've said enough.

Ian

------------------
Common misconception...size and weight equal quality and performance. Don't be fooled.

Same as the 3k nothing more ....nothing less, nothings changed, 9 oclock rear gain pod......."direct close vocals" on mic or its wharble time .....take off the vibrato.....drop the mic to harm ratio -15%

Zuki: I use my T2 on gigs regularly. Weight is not a problem and it fits in my car OK. The down side for me is the lack of internal speakers. I use a personal monitor (Toa-sm25) similar to a hot spot. It works well enough for me to wait until whatever replaces the T2 instead of considering a S-900. Looking at the S-900 it has all the sounds and styles I use on a regular basis. I think the S-900 USB recording is fine instead of the T2 harddrive recording. My only concerns is the physical aspects. I really like the big clear buttons on the T2 and I find the action to be OK. I have not tried a S-900 to see how it would work in realtime. Like any keyboard I would want to try it first.

Zuki, email me sometime: lhl2468@aol.com.