surely craig, you paid a similar price for the mediastation?

Perhaps I don't have the same expertise in this area as some of the guys here because I don't play out as often, nor do I depend on it for a living. I'll generally avoid parties and other similar venues where I'll be expected mainly or only to perform songs that sound like the original artist's recordings, unless it's for a friend or coworker. It isn't that I can't do this, it just isn't my "thing".

I will do some standards as close to the original as possible, but I also like being able to put my own spin, and I find that doing some of this works well for me in the venues I do play. I also try to mix in a good bit of acoustic stuff, just the actual instrument that I'm playing and my voice, and this usually gets a very nice reaction. I also like the challenge of making stuff up on the fly, so occasionally I might make something out of something else, and if I can add a little humor, that seems to work well too.

Donny, I kind of agree with your last thought. If you ain't actually playing it, then I don't care how you produce it or what spin anyone puts on it, it's all pretty much the same to me, whether it be a karaoke file, arranger backing, mp3 file, midifile, arpeggio, etc. There isn't anything wrong with any of that and if it's working for you that's all that counts, but I can't take it very serious when someone is saying in a critical way that one is better than the other. As for me, I have no problem using an arranger, arp pattern, or midi file for backing when I need it. I am just trying to pare down a little the amount of time that I actually do need these things, and instead focus on my actual singing, playing and entertainment abilities. The results have been good. I think it's a reflection from within that shows to the audience, because whether I want to embrace it, and accept it or not, I just feel more comfortable about my own performance when it's just me and my hands, although I also like the duet gigs as well, with a talented musician and / or vocalist.

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 10-08-2005).]

I find that it depends "who and what" you are playing for. I use minimum arranger backgrounds for an "educated sophisticated" clientele. When ya got the people that wanna let loose then more backing helps.

Arranger artists really are incredible musicians from dealing with all this diversity and constantly evaluating what they are doing and just analyzing all of the backgrounds from all the different versions and brands of these boards.

That alone is an education unique to this kind of artist.

Referring to me?

what a crock of sh*t....this thread is just one big pissing contest between you all...for f*cks sake getting comments from some like ..."I wont play midifiles or mp3 files coz that means im not a musician"...what do you think you are playing when you play the arranger keyboards??? MIDI FILES.... pre-recorded patterns of MIDI FILES...look at MOST topline bands (yes full bands) that are touring, say with Madonna or whoever else...they ALL use midi/mp3/wav files in their shows....geez, two/three piece bands out here are a dime a dozen, ALL use MIDI backing tracks, they may be comprised of gtr bass and brass and have drums/bass/ keys in the midi and play the rest live, or keys drums and gtr and have the bass/other in the midi file...thats just one example....From this thread we are to assume that if you are playing full keyboard/synths/organs or playing your guitar/bass or a drummer and using midi files/arranger patterns for the other compnents of the music you are NOT a musician....PLEASE give me a break!!!! you blokes really need to get a grip.

Manic...you make very valid points for sure. We're all making Music & thats a good thing no matter how you do it.
I feel your pain

Maniac, I don't believe anybody who responded to this thread (including myself) said or infered that.

I have no problem with keyboard players playing along to midi files if they 'really' are "playing FULL keyboard", as you pointed out to add. What troubles me are performers who appear on stage with a keyboard, yet only pretend like they're playing it, while only singing along to commercial midi files instead. I find it troubling to see a performer merely holding a single single finger on the keyboard, yet hear full keyboard parts being played on the midi/karaoke backup. Call me a musical snob, but these guys are not MUSICIANS, but singer-entertainers, and DECEPTIVE ones at that. The dictionary's definition of a musician is: someone who plays a musical instrument. I don't consider a CD/MP3, or MIDI File playing device, a musical instrument.

Maniac, though I certainly advocate free speech, I nonetheless feel the profane language (albeit with added expletives) you used was rather uneccessary. I'm sure you could have chosen other more appropriate words to express your frustration.

Scott

Scott, I agree with most what you say. Language aside though, I do agree with and understand manic's frustration. I think CraigUK came across rather ignorant. As if playing a midi pattern is more musically than playing full piano or guitar or flute or any other instruments over any media file. And his comment on what Synthzoners might spend their money on for use for their backing, confirms his attitude.
Anyway I thought 'crock of sh*t' was kind of funny.........

[This message has been edited by royandreno (edited 10-09-2005).]

What we all have to remember is that whether we use arranger styles, midis, mp3s or waves on a keyboard we are dealing with electronic music. That is to say we are playing a keyboard that is trying to duplicate other instrument sounds. The audience knows that there is some type of electronic device that is allowing them to hear lots of instruments (regardless of how real the instrument sound) even though on stage there is just a keyboard player.

There are some music purists who think that if you are not playing the actual instrument (saxophone for example) but instead playing a keyboard with a saxophone sound you are not a “real musician.”

There are others who believe that if you are pressing one key on the keyboard or a chord and getting the sound like a band, that is not acceptable to them. The same is said for those who play over a midi file, mp3 or wave.
I guess every one has there limit to which they feel comfortable taking the concept of electronic music and auto playing by some type of electronic musical device.


The fact is we live in a world where economics, logistics and the market determine what gets used and not used on a gig.

Ideally, I would like to gig with a band and have the instruments that I want playing with me. However, the cost of having a full band against the pay that is received from a gig makes it not possible. Also, to find quality musicians who can adjust to any type of music and is competent at all musical levels (rhythm, play in any key …) with out an enormous amount of time practicing is hard to find.

So some of us opt for fewer people in a band, (2, 3 or 4) or do it by our selves. Because we know what the audience want we try to compensate for what the performance dose not have live with electronic representations. That is where we get in to midis, arranger styles mp3s and waves.

The trick is to incorporate what is necessary while making it sound live and exciting for the audience. After all, it is the audience that determine what we do as performers not our musicianship.


The other reality is that in order to survive, you can not be a musician alone, but you must be an entertainer. Some do not have a problem with that.

I think that for some people, the more they do to become a better entertainer for the audience; they slowly drift away from the musicianship part of things.

I think each of us must know what we are comfortable doing and do it to the best of our abilities and not try to belittle others because they are not doing the same as us.

Sure there are many valid points mentioned here, but like other Tyros-2 (potential)buyers here, I too felt some irritation coming up at the topic start. ("Tyros2 styles too Fluffy ?")

It's obvious some people do not (want to) like Tyros2 styles or sounds.... even before they really have heard/touched or played or used it....