Sorry all, I merely put my comment in as a counterbalance to guys like Donny, whose only comment on what was a great performance, AND a demonstration that pros sometimes DO use arrangers JUST for the sounds was a contentedness that they are making all the money.

I for one, and I believe, MANY here, STILL think that possibly the MUSIC itself deserves some consideration. Or should we stop talking about music, and just discuss financial matters?

We MAY be making all the money, but we certainly aren't making music as advanced as that clip with our arrangers (nobody has posted ANYTHING like that here!) unless we use them just to play with others. I do this regularly with my G70, have NEVER had to apologize or explain why I am using an arranger, and to be perfectly honest, as long as the MUSIC is exciting and fresh, the fact that I don't make all the money for the gig doesn't worry me one little bit.

But if my earlier post DID piss anyone off, well, first of all, sorry. But MAYBE it would be good to think about whether the music or the money is the most important thing in your lives...

May I offer a further thought on all this particularly when playing more modern songs say from mid 1960's to the late eighties. I have found it increasingly important that my rhythm support (style file) is as close to the original song as possible in order to satisfy the audience. Indeed there are times when only a quality midi file will suffice.
So good equipment (hardware) yes; but equally very good song specific styles (software).
Roger M

Money or music...great question, Diki. Sadly, those are the choices working musicians face. I'm convinced that the reason so many great players had major personal problems (drugs, poverty, etc.) is that they had a choice to make. More money to play crap or starvation to play what they considered worthwhile stuff.

What happens is, as you progress, you play yourself out of a job. As the music gets more sophisticated the audience gets smaller.

Some players blame the public, which is wrong. The public doesn't spend every waking hour learning, appreciating, playig and living jazz, classics..whatever. Some players resent the showmen of the world, considering them all fluff and no substance. Often, the showmen make all the bread, or at least more than the musician.

It all comes down to what each individual can live with. We have folks from both camps here, and I sometimes think these differences are ther root of some of the problems.

For me, balancing the integrity of the music with compensation and venue choices is a constant battle.

Best of luck, everyone, with the choices you make!


Russ

Beautifully stated, Russ. And what we need to remember is that neither camp is inherently evil, even if a few individual members sometimes come across that way.


chas

Very well said Russ!
It's the same here. With our seventies rockband we allways have the same discussion, the balance between what we wanna play and what the public want's to hear...

Allthough we plan our sets ahead, we allways have reserve lists just in case the public want's to hear something different..and we will just switch to another style...
So it's Public FIRST! and indeed usually the three chords songs work the best.

Fred

Indeed... the balancing act is the main thing. I simply get the urge to point that out every now and again when I read posts that simply ignore the musical side completely, and just crow about the money (and there are several here that do that).

And, of course, I use an arranger for solo and duo stuff myself, so don't ever think that the money end of it is of NO concern to me at all! But I DO like to try and balance things out, and remember that playing fine music (and it doesn't have to be jazz - I am equally happy with just about anything, as long as it is played with passion and commitment) is probably as important to my soul and survival as the money that I make.

But I think I would like to clear up one thing, from at least my limited experience...

I don't believe there is ANYWHERE near the resistance from 'other' players to the use of an arranger as your regular, band keyboard as some make out. To be perfectly honest, I believe most other musicians care about as much what YOU play, as you do which guitar THEY play, or what brand drumkit, or what type of bass. Basically, if you ROCK, they don't give a hoot. (Just DON'T fire up the auto section on the breaks at rehearsal, and play a bossa nova!)

But I am fairly certain that if you go into a band gig, and play the way I have heard many play on this forum (not all, of course, and whoever is reading this, of COURSE I don't mean YOU ), it is possible that, to be kind, they MIGHT try to tell you that it is the keyboard...

But it isn't... Just like the guy in the clip at the bottom of p.1 of this thread, no-one cares when you can play that well WHAT you play. Something to consider...

Performance or equipment...? Performance - EVERY TIME..!

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 10-26-2007).]

a good performer in flat mono? or a passable performer in perfect stereo? or Satchmo/Caruso on a wind-up victrola?

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Miami Mo

A GREAT performer in and on anything he or she so desires... (and I'll just be happy to be in the same room!).

The REST of us... the details matter a little bit more (to cover OUR shortcomings!

I think that the further down the skill ladder you go, the MORE important the best sounding gear becomes. A GREAT sound, played simply, will always sound better than a poor sound played as simply. And if simple is as good as your technique and imagination will take you, might as well make it SOUND pretty!

And, of course, the more you use your arranger's auto accompaniment as the main part of your act, the more important it is that it sound good, too. Cover up a cheap Casio with stellar chops and keep the ACC to a minimum, it's going to sound like a million bucks. But play simple single line melodies over the entire accompaniment style, and that Casio is going to sound, well, like a Casio!

Chops rule... Chops in stereo, even better (IMO), but chops, chops, chops....!

(This is me agreeing with you, Mo! )

It's the money! When you go on stage, look out there at all those people, evaluate your audience, play what they want to hear, play what gets their toes tappin, play what packs the dancefloor. Play the stuff they like to hear, take the check, take the tips, go home, prop up your feet, turn on the TV and take a cool sip from your margaretta. Play what YOU want to hear, ignore your audiences and guess what--you'll be playing in your den, office or living room. You won't be playing for audiences of any kind for very long unless you play what THEY want to hear. And at the end of the day, when that check is handed to you and you get a big hug and kiss from a good looking gal who hands you a tip, that's what makes it all worthwhile. My dear, departed father has a saying that was worth repeating "There's only one thing money can't buy--POVERTY! You can rent or buy anything else you need." And. that often includes good health and love.

Think about it,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

Play what they want to hear...but play it well.

Ian