Hello,

Im a complete newb and am attempting to get a keyboard. I already singled out getting a Midi controller due to the very high costs. My top two picks are the Casio WK-3000 and the Yamaha DGX300. They both look very good and very equally matched keyboards. Im very open to different board suggestions, im just looking for input on a model i should get. I plan on using this for on stage playing. My spending limit is close to 340$

Thanks for your input!

Phil


[This message has been edited by Pennywizz6 (edited 11-11-2004).]

Of those two models I'd choose the WK-3000. The 3000 will have better speakers, ability to edit voices, drawbar organs, modulation button, smart media storage. As far as sounds...that's really subjective. Everyone has different opinions on that one. However, I've played the DGX-300 many times, and own the Casio WK-3500. The only difference between my Casio and the model you're looking at is floppy disk, modulation wheel, and L&R output. Other than that they are both essentially the same board. Soundwise I'd take the Casio in this case.

Squeak

Thanks for the input. I like that board too, but i have no exsperiance to compare. Can i plug it into an amp? Are those two boards the best for 340$? Or am i missing something else?

Thanks,

Phil

I think if you could come up with another $60. you could get the WK3500, and be better off.
DonM

What are the main differences from the 3000 and 3500? The only thing i can see is the 3 1/2 drive. Since I have smart media cards i dont think its really worth it for an extra 50 bucks.

Thanks,

Phil

I think it's well worth the $60. Having both floppy and smart media is beneficial. The 3500 will give you individual left and right output for connecting to an amp. The 3000 uses the headphone jack as the output jack this can compromise sound output quality. The 3500 will also give you a modulation wheel as opposed to a button on the 3000. The button will not give you the same level of control as you'd have on the 3500 using a wheel. If you want to hook up to an amp it's better to have separate left and right output...

Hmmm thats a tough call... the thing is I really dont have that much to spend, im strapped for cash. 340 is stretching it itself. I looked back at midi controllers. How cheap can I get a tone modulator? That way I can get a 150 controller and a 200 modulator. And can I play pre recorded songs on it via 3 1/2 of smart media? Just another option to throw out.

Thanks,

Phil

[This message has been edited by Pennywizz6 (edited 11-11-2004).]

Ok, I went looking around online and I found a place where they have really good prices. Now here are the two...

Yamaha DGX305 and the WK-3500

Looking for input on both of them. Im leaning towards the Yamaha, good brand, and to me the Casio looks like a toy and the Yamaha looks a little better. Although ive heard good stuff about casio. Tough call.

Thanks a bunch!

Phil

[This message has been edited by Pennywizz6 (edited 11-11-2004).]

I played both at Guitar Center (stores all over USA) and spend about 30 min each and CASIO sounds better all around. Especially the pianos and ep's are probably better in CASIO. Speaker is no contest - it's better with CASIO. I think the Yamaha model is a 61 keys IIRC.

I thought the Yammie model looks more like a toy. I own Yamaha PSR2000 which costs around $1200 when it came out.

Just go to GC and print your ads they will match it and you can try both keyboard for 30 days. There is no better way to know a keyboard than spending one week with it and then decide.

If your price range is tight I suggest the 3000 over the Yamaha. It will still give you more options. Also remember the Casio will load samples into the board. The free Casio software allows you to convert them to the Casio format and then load them into the board. Very good feature here. You load all kinds of samples from sound effects to drum loops to full instruments. Both the 3000 and 3500 have this ability

Squeak

Phil,
I left a comment on the other forum. If cash is a serious issue for you, maybe a used Casio wk1800 will benefit you? Personally between the Yahama and the Casio's in this class... I think the Casio may be better quality.

I had both the WK3000, (which I think is better the the Yamaha DGX200's and 300's) and the WK1800, for what I used them for, the WK1800 was better and certainly now will be cheaper.

Bob
<><

Are you sure Wk1800 is on par with the newer Wk3000 ?

I thought the sound of the pianos on the older wk was nowhere near the Wk3000 series. I disliked the older wk series - and after playing it for couple days, I dumped it with no regrets.

Well, I'm sure they are, from my perspective and for what I used the casios for. The sound is to a great degree subjective and so I'd leave that up to the individual listener. But I had no trouble with what I heard from the WK1800. The WK3000 offers many more, but I only needed a few decent ones (AP's and EP's) to get me by. Keep in mind, I was not performing with this keyboard. I wound up selling them both over time to help be pay for me Motif ES7, and when I get the chance to, I'm going to re-purchase a WK1800.

Perhaps the WK3000 is better than the WK1800. But I really didn't find the sound quality a great deal better, nor did I care for the mod button, nor the no line out. SM card was nice, but disk was OK. the drawbar on the WK3000 was cute, but the WK1800's sufficed for my purposes.

I just think if money is a critical point, and the guy is a newbie, that the WK1800 should be considered. Ha could probably get one for under 200 bucks maybe even under 150? Of course it will most likely be used though. But there's many out there barely used ya know?

Anyhow... peace
Bob
<><

Well I have to say that I think the 3000/3500 are way ahead of the WK-1800 in sound quality. I've played the 1800 on many occasions and used it quite a bit because a friend owned one. The 1800's sound quality is not up to par with the 3000 series. You have to keep in mind that the 3000 series have their voices taken from the MZ-2000. I used to own that board too. The acoustic pianos on the 1800 were too how you say "in your face". They did not have the level of realism as on the 3000 models. Not only are the samples on the 3000 series better quality they are greatly enhanced by the extensive DSP effects. Those effects were taken from the MZ-2000 as well, and trust me they are extensive. You can edit the effects down to the bone. I think the only thing the 1800 has is the style recording which was too quite limited in ability. However the 3000 compared to the 1800 to me is a no brainer. The 3000 has totally new samples, drawbar organs, extensive effects section, smart media storage, and ability to load new samples into the boards. I think that taking a 1800 over the 3000 is taking a loss and a step back.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 11-12-2004).]

Thanks for all the replys,it looks like most of you guys like the wk-3500 best. The place I plan on buying from is in europe and the prices are in euros, but it come out cheaper when converted. Do you think CG would price match?

Thanks,

Phil

Hi Phil ,

Yamaha's Current Model is the DGX305, the DGX300 has been discontinued.


Dan O'

[This message has been edited by DanO1 (edited 11-12-2004).]

Well I converted wrong, it was GPM currency, which totalled alot more than the euros! So the wk-3500 is out unless I can find a used one. otherwise i think im set on the wk-3000.

Thanks,

Phil

Phil,

Just give GC a call - it's that simple. And ask all your q's about price match, etc.

Another suggestions is to checkout prices on music123.com and even dealtime.com for comparison shopping.

Even amazon.com or walmart carry those Casio and Yamaha lower end models. You can take those to GC but remember you have to pay tax when buying from GC but if you buy online, you have to pay shipping - which comes out even at the end of the day.

What about the Alesis QS6? I found a used one and it has 512 preset sounds 128 user programs, 400 preset and 100 user mixes, expandable using PCMCIA cards.

I have a few questions about it though, how do i save songs from my computer to play on that board? And how do I record it to my comp? Heres some info on it http://alesis.com/downloads/manuals/QS6_Manual.pdf I read it but dont fully understand.

Thanks,

Phil


[This message has been edited by Pennywizz6 (edited 11-12-2004).]

The QS6 is not an arranger. Will you miss those auto features?

Uncle Dave is right. The Alesis QS6 is primarily a performance synth. It does not have arranger capabilities nor does it have an internal sequencer. You could still however use the board to sequence to a computer.

Squeak

Id record some stuff on my computer from it and layer it on my computer. Then I want to save the song from my comp onto a card (what kind would I use?) and plug that into the keyboard so I can play the song on my keyboard that I made with no wires from or to a computer. Sorry newb, what is an arranger and an internal sequencer? Overall how would this board sound and what are the capabilities that this board can do and the others cant?

Thanks!

Phil

An arranger is a keyboard with a special ability to give you rythms like drums and auto accompaniment where you can sound like a full band with a few pushes of the fingers.
I believe this is one of the best way to learn music and a great tool for composing also.

It's easier when someone demo it to you in live. You can click the link below and see the different keyboards being demoed by a real musician (Michael V is famous around here).
http://www.yamaha-europe.com/yamaha_euro...ovies/index.php

You can see the PSR3000 or the much cheaper PSR295 and PSRK1 in action.

$1.00 down and $1.00 a week. Just borrow the money. Music123 has 12 months no interest, but to U.S. customers only.
Starkeeper

Wow, thanks for the tip, the really makes it sound like chump change!

Thanks,

Phil

How is the Roland EXR-3? The price is negotiable and I found a refurbed one for 420. It has alot of great features but can I record from the board to my computer via usb, save the edited song, and then store it back to the board without being attached to the comp?

Thanks,

Phil

I'm going to stick my head out and say, "yes". This is what the specs say, "and up to 99 songs (1.5MB total), which can be loaded in via USB." Looks like you can store your uploaded MIDI files on the EXR-3.
$420 is more then the $340 you wanted to spend . Music123 has it for $17/month.
Starkeeper

[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 11-15-2004).]

Hehehe yeah, I know im drifting away from my limit. Im thinking might as well get somethign good and the other half is thinking get a 300$ one to try out. Im still looking but the casio wk series and this roland is looking like my top picks. But I need a bigger wallet! I have cool edit pro 2 where I will record in layers and compose a song, can I save the file on that and transfer it to the keyboard? Do i need a midi converter or something?

Thanks,

Phil

Sorry I keep finding different boards but I want to insure that I get the perfect board for me. I stumbled across the CTK-731 by casio. I really like what it has to offer. What are the main differences between the casio wk-3000 and the CTK-731? I see that the CTK-731 has a floppy and a few less keys. Does that specific board offer the feature of loading tones from the casio site? I cant seem to find any info on it. Wheres the cheapest place to get the CTK-731?

Thanks,

Phil

Phil your getting fickled...
Don't even think about CTK-731...
Get the low end wk-3000 or wk-3500...
Or look for a psr540 or a psr550..
A psr540 on ebay just went for $250 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38091&item=3758098141&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
And a psr550 went for $327
Both great boards and imo better than the WK.. although some fokls don't agree...
here's a bid for a 540 and a bid for a 550 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38091&item=3762006276&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38091&item=3761504931&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
Although if you just want to get your feet wet you can get the psr292... great board for the bucks and once you figure out if you like it or not put it up on ebay... you'll likely loose 30 bucks, but that's a hell of a nice rental fee for 6 months of trying it out..


As far as cool edit 2 which now is adobe audition 1.5...I suggest you go to http://www.adobe.com They have wav loops you can download and you could do a whole song with those loops using your cool edit 2... Anyway... Yes you could layer your tracks from the keyboard in wave format to Cool Edit and you have a 128 tracks and effects to mess with... But you better have a big hard drive and a fast processor... So if you take that path you better find the keyboard with the best sounds... Cause cool edit is not a midi program... It going to record the sound that comes out of the board...

Just my cents..
DJ

Thanks for the useful info beach, just curious why dont you like the CTK-731? So your saying that if I record to cool edit, edit and layer it there, save it, I cant play the full song on the board via floppy? Sorry I got kind of confused. I have plenty fast comp though.

I really like the synth capability of the ctk-731.

Thanks,

Phil

[This message has been edited by Pennywizz6 (edited 11-15-2004).]

No, you can't bring it back to a floppy... The only way you can record anything to a floppy is to use a midi program... like cakewalk... You could then record your tune to the computer then make a disk... although that is going to take a lot of research on your part... I suggest you check this site on midi recording... http://www.tweakheadz.com/how_to_get_started_with_midi.html

Another way is to use your built in sequencer in the keyboard itself... I know the PSR 540 and 550 both have 16 track built in sequencers you can save the files on a floppy. That's how I record all my stuff on the psr2000... I play each part on diffrent tracks on the keyboard and save it to disk... I then do all the mixing on the board... panning left and right and changing instruments and bringing volume levels up and down on each track... Then I hit the play button when I'm ready and it records to Audition 1.5 (Which is a Cool edit upgrade, Adobe bought cool edit..)After, I can do vocal tracks into a mixer into the computer... All done in audition.. I'll try to explain further...
Pro edit is an audio program it only records audio, or wave files from your keyboard.. They are recorded exactly as they sound. You can do track by track up to 128 then use effects and mix them down to a single wave file that you'd put on a CD, or make an mp3 out of... Cool edit is pure recording software... There.

As for the Casio... The model you want they sell mostly in europe and have not seen one around these parts... As a beginner it's important that you get a board a lot of folks know about... That way when you need help you more likley to get it...
That's all for me.
DJ

Thanks for the new knowledge DJ, it starting to clear out a bit. How cheap can I get a midi program? I just like the control of using and perfecting the song on my computer with a program that is simple yet effective to use and from there get it onto a floppy that is compatible to be played on the board. What i was invisioning is that I would have most of the tracks minus one and on live stage performing I would play one role while the others are going. That way I can get the sound that I want with multiple tracks and play one along with it. Is this possible wihtout buying hundred dollar programs and hudred dollar sound cards?

Im very interested in the PSR550, i didnt know you could find them that cheap, i thought they were 500ish

Thanks a bunch,

Phil

[This message has been edited by Pennywizz6 (edited 11-15-2004).]

Phil, All the boards you listed are capable of midi... But the 550 also has a real nice sequencer for you to play around with... I think you need to get your hands on a board and explore it for yourself... All those midi files you can download on web sites... They all sound pretty crappy coming out of your PC speakers.. But once you copy'em to a floppy and play them through your board your going to understand a little more what we're taking about... Plus you need to learn styles and all those types of functions that will really give you an idea of what an arranger board can do...
Pro tools has a free trail you can mess with that a bit.. It's cheap... You can also try out sonar the more high dallar stuff as well for free... Don't worry... I was in your shoes once and I eventually figured it out... God luck.. It's real exciting in the begining... Just make sure you make the right choices... Especially if you don't have the wallet to make the wrong ones...
This is what you'll need in the end.
Keyboard.
Mixer.
Mic.
Software
headphones & speakers...
and don't forget the cables... They ain't cheap either... Then your good to go...
DJ

Hoofta, hmm alrighty hehe. Lets see, the PSR550 has a mixer that is taken care of i think. If I cant get my hands on a midi program is it possible to send the files to somebody and they convert them and put them on a floppy? Id obviously pay for it, but overall i still think it might same me some dough. My main concern is not being able to afford it all! But I dont want to get junk either. Heres what im thinking...

Ill bid on the 550 wish me luck.
If that fails ill look at the wk3000 and the european board. I have headphones and a 1/4 converter.

Will a guitar amp work? I know it wont be the best option, but its what i have to work with.

Last what type of cables will I need?

Thanks!!!!

Phil

Hi phil,
just get a board... work with it for a while... If it's used I'm sure your not going to loose a lot of dogh by selling it... Just do some research I recommend you read that article I sent you a link to...

If you want to go mega cheap buy a $50 board that has midi from the pawn shop... buy some cakewalk on ebay and write your tunes... when done have someone do the mix down on a good board...
I think you have enough advise you need to get your feet wet... the 550 would be a great starter board... was one of my fav's
DJ

The PSR550 saves MIDI files directly onto floppy disk.
Power Tracks Pro can be used to manipulate MIDI files on your computer or you can record the output from the PSR550's MIDI connector's onto your computer (using Power Tracks). http://www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm
The PSR550 sweet voices are excellent, especially the sweet flute. The piano's are ok, the quitar's are good and lots of them, sax's are good, organs are good (with swirling Leslie SIM)



[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 11-16-2004).]

Rats! The PSR550 is no longer available for bidding!!! That sucks, oh well, if anybody sees a good deal on a keyboard, used or new. Please let me know!

Thanks,

Phil