EZ there Terry. I just think such a controversial issue is best left for s=discussion elewhere. The football talk is just a diversion because of the excitement of the playoffs. Smut and trash talk is too sensitive an issue to drag out here. That's all I was saying. Nothing good can come of it here.

I agree with Terry.

When someone starts an OT thread about the US parochial topic of American Football then the rest of us in the world simply switch off and ignore the posts as we don't know the difference between the Indians, green socks, Eagles or whatever else they are called.

Profanity on TV and Radio (and the street) is an issue that we should all care about and discuss.

My opinion only but glad I'm able to express it (might regret it though).

KF

Hey - we gave equal time to the world cup, didn't we?
I guess we all are guilty of thinking that this forum is actually IN our own backyard sometimes. It's a wonderful thing that a global understanding is beginning to spread. We're like diplomats here !

"Smut and trash talk is too sensitive to discuss here"......Whoa Dave...There are no redeeming or worthwhile qualities to profanity,,it may be okay when we are riding in a truck[inside joke], but it sure isn't sensitive enough to say nay to it..Now let me see if I can find a d---[dang] show about the Eagles up coming game with that what's their name team..

So then brickboo, lead by example and get rid of your TV. That is what my parents did. They felt that there were a hundred and one better, more educational or appropriate things for me to do than sit and watch TV.

They did not sit there and say, heck I love my tv so everyone else better moderate themselves into what I think is acceptable.

That kind of thinking is self serving and places the responsibility on other people rather than accepting it as your own.

However much I may have hated it at the time I have to respect the fact that my parents were taking responsibility for the way their kids were raised. They did not need the state to do it for them. They did not require anyone else to conform to their way of thinking or to their 'morality'. They just got on with it. Rightly or wrongly they decided what we were and were not exposed to.

What is right for me is most definately not right for you and that is just me and you..... add everyone else into the equation and there would be nothing but a blank screen to watch once we had all chipped away at offending programes. That is the problem if we go down the route of censorship because who is to say your morality is any better than mine or indeed that mine is any better than yours. I don't doubt for a second that you feel you are right, and probably with a passion. I do not agree with a lot of what you say but I will defend your right to say it. Just because I do not agree with you does not make it wrong......but that works both ways.

You don't like to watch "out of the closet" stuff on tv. That is your right. You don't like profanity on tv, cool...you should not be subjected to something that offends you. Ultimately you have total control over what you allow into your home.

Personally I hate to see women parading themselves in bikinis in a wrestling ring. However I don't demand legislation to stop it. I could bang on about how this practice is demeaning to women, reinforcing unnatainable body goals for young girls etc etc. But none of that would be the reason for me not wanting to see it. I just use those 'acceptable' and 'politically correct' arguments to dress up the fact that I don't want to see it on tv. Some folk may like it. If that is their bag who am I to rain on their parade? I turn off the box. Simple. That way everyone is happy.

Censorship is nothing more than people forcing their view of what is right onto other people simply because they 'know' it to be right and have the arrogance to assume that others cannot make the decision for themselves. Blaming it on protecting the kids reeks of an innability to find a more cohesive argument for their moral impositions.

Tony

[This message has been edited by Tony W (edited 01-16-2004).]

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.....................
Never mind...................

Brickboo,
As I said before, just because I cannot agree with what you are saying does not mean you are wrong. I have no desire to be confrontational with you or anyone else but surely I am as entitled to my point of view as you are to yours?

As far as I can tell my parents did their level best to censure my upbringing and to use your word to brainwash me into their religion, morality and life choices. After 17 years of being 'protected' I went off and did my own thing and became my own person. I know that my lifestyle and the 'way I am' is a great dissapointment to my Mum. You try living with that. I also know that IN SPITE of this she loves me unconditionally and I her. I tell you this because it proves that your argument is too simplistic. Yes I agree everyone knows what is right and wrong but ONLY within the context of their own personal moral code. I could list exactly what I TRULY believe to be right or wrong and you could do the same but the list would vastly different.

I am glad that you have a certainty about what you believe should and should not be disposed of withing society. I am not saying that to sound clever or to score a point I really mean it. I also feel strongly that you have the right to say so and to enforce the same within your own enviroment. However I feel just as strongly that you don't have the right to MAKE me conform to what you feel is right if I don't feel the same way.

To me this is plain and simple respect for the individual, allowing the same to enjoy freedom of choice and to take responsibility for his / her own life and actions.

Am I missing something or is that exactly the reason we felt the need to 'liberate' the peoples of Iraq and Afghanistan. Those people had to endure prohibition and censure on a grand scale by the state, telling them what to think, what to eat, what to drink, when to pray, who to pray to etc. etc. It is a very slippery slope.
Tony

Ok Brickboo,
I can see that there is no way we are ever going to agree on ANY of this. I don't know if you are being purposefully inflammatory or if it is just, as you indicated that you have not been overly educated. You have a perfect right to believe whatever you want to believe so let's just leave it at that.

Best wishes
Tony

[This message has been edited by Tony W (edited 01-16-2004).]

Tony & Bricaboo,
I understand where and why you are both coming from where you are. Both have good and valid points.

The only thing I will add to the discussion, is that people have proven they are not responsible enough to be left alone. Whether or not it's because they were raised wrong or peer pressure or whatever excuse one wants to make for being a jerk. Without rules and penalties for infraction of the rules, we would have chaos. One has seen that very clearly demonstrated everytime a riot has broken out, or druken college kids on spring break, people for the most part given half a chance cannot behave themselves. If they could we would not need laws or the constitution, courts, prisons, etc.

I do think though that you two without knowing it are actually debating different points rather than the simple question posed here, should TV be cleaned up.

There has to be an accepted code of conduct and morality that a society can agree on. In it's simpilest terms, we can all agree murder is wrong. We do not cry foul because there are laws and penalties for murdering someone. Of course vulgarity does not compare, but again we are back to an acceptable code of conduct.

I have to say that I am a bleeding heart liberal always was and always will be, however that does not mean anything can and should be ok. If TV or people cannot govern themselves then unfortunately it is then left to governments to step in and make people behave in an acceptable manner, which has to be determined by the majority of society. In essence we need to be protected from ourselves.

Right now my impression is the young kids are foul mouthed, totally unmotivated, with very little if any respect for anyone or anything (not all of course)and I blame the parents (not all, some do all the right things and their kids still turn out to be creeps or visa versa) who raised them for this poor behaviour. From my observations most parents can't be bothered being parents anymore.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

Brick
It's a fine line really and we can't miss Tony's or my earlier point about once the door is opened where does it stop and who is to decide where the line is? It really has to be a majority decision.

I remember at a very young age using the F word in my house and remember it was the only time I ever got slapped by my Dad , who never had to again because I got the message. From then on all it took was a look from him.

All subsequent generations do different things from the previous one and enjoy different things and think differently. That is part of growing up and finding their own identity apart from their parents. For me it was shoulder length hair. For my older brother it was ducktails and a pompedore.

While I am not a prude in any sense of the word, I do think there is a time, place and channel for it. There was a new TV series that started not too long back and so the first 2 episodes we gave a try "CSI" every other word it seemed to me was some sort of profanity (exaggeration of course)but I thought, geeze do they have to say it all so often, seems like just poor writing to me. I don't know that shows have to all be Mary Poppins to me, but when we watch the old black and whites (our favs)they never swore in any of them and got the point across by great acting and writing.

It's a different generation now though that needs violence and vulgarity to entertain themselves I guess. It does permeate all that entertains them, vid games, TV, real world environment.

We have atheletic, movie or rock stars that show some of the poorest examples and a press core that supports and furthers that. We have 29 minutes of bad news on top of bad news, to be ended with a 1 minute segment of good news. It's no wonder we get a skewed view of life. Unfortunately though it's what sells papers and TV shows. Good news is boring to most. A little fender bender and traffic is going nowhere while all drive by at a snail's pace to see the blood and guts and are disappointed if they don't.

I suppose the hope is that if we all give our kids the right messages they will turn out to be good adults. If not, then it's their world to live in and deal with and we'll be gone.

I sure don't want the Jerry Falwells of the world deciding for me though what's good or bad.

We do need more parents that sit and watch a program first or at the same time before they let their kids watch it. They may be exposed to it all at a freind's house, but don't need to be exposed to it in my house. Instead we have absentee parenting. People have a baby and 3 months later they are back to work and leave their babies to be raised by strangers, day care nannies etc. so what do we expect as a result?
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 01-17-2004).]

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 01-17-2004).]