By JONATHAN D. SALANT, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - The head of the Federal Communications Commission, upset over a growing use of profanity on television and radio, wants to sharply increase the penalties for broadcasters airing indecent programs.

AP Photo


FCC (news - web sites) Chairman Michael Powell said at a National Press Club luncheon on Wednesday that the current maximum penalty, $27,500 for each incident, should be 10 times higher.

"Some of these fines are peanuts — they are peanuts because they haven't been touched in decades," Powell said. "They're just the cost of doing business to a lot of producers, and that has to change."

Powell's proposal, which needs congressional approval, comes amid continued criticism of the FCC for a ruling in October that an expletive uttered by the musician Bono on a network TV program was not indecent because it was used as an adjective rather than to describe a sex act. And it follows a report in September by a conservative advocacy group, the Parents Television Council, which found much more foul language on network TV.

Powell, who has asked his four fellow commissioners to overturn the FCC ruling on Bono, said it was irresponsible for broadcasters to air profanity during hours when children may be watching.

Federal law and FCC rules ban radio stations and over-the-air television channels from airing obscene material at any time, and from airing indecent material between 6 a.m. and 10 p.m. The FCC defines obscene material as describing sexual conduct "in a patently offensive way" and lacking "serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value." Indecent material is not as offensive but still contains references to sex or excretions.

"It's irresponsible of our programmers to continue to try to push the envelope of a reasonable set of policies that tries to legitimately balance the interests of the First Amendment with the need to protect our kids," Powell said. "I think that line is beginning to be crossed."

One of the two Democratic commissioners, Jonathan Adelstein, backed Powell's call for higher fines.

"We get a lot of complaints," Adelstein said. "We're getting serious about it now. Hopefully, we'll see less people crossing the line on this. We want to give them incentives to do that."

The National Association of Broadcasters declined to comment. So did NBC, which aired the Golden Globes Awards show last year where Bono, the lead singer of the Irish rock group U2, said "this is really, really, f------ brilliant."

The FCC's enforcement bureau said Bono's comments were not indecent or obscene because the F-word was used as an adjective.

But lawmakers have been quick to react.

Rep. Fred Upton, R-Mich., chairman of the House Energy and Commerce subcommittee on telecommunications and the Internet, said he would introduce legislation to increase the maximum fines for indecency. His subcommittee plans a hearing on the issue Jan. 28.

"Clearly, we're beyond the `Ozzie and Harriet,' days but we still don't need some of this language that's out there," Upton said. "It's on the air because they can get away with it."

Watchdog groups say broadcasters are trying to compete with racier cable television channels, which are not covered by the same FCC rules, and trying to attract the young males coveted by advertisers.

"This is a game where you're competing for audiences," said Celia Wexler, research director for Common Cause. "They're not thinking about what the soccer mom and their kids might enjoy; they're thinking about what that 18 to 24 year old male might enjoy."

The commission's two largest penalties for indecency were $1.7 million against Infinity Broadcasting in 1995 to settle several cases against radio disc jockey Howard Stern and $357,000 in October against Infinity for a segment on the "Opie and Anthony" radio show in which a couple was said to be having sex in New York's St. Patrick's Cathedral.

Foul language run amok. There has got to be a line drawn to the putrid stench that is broadcast to the public on prime time TV and Radio. Of course we as adults can handle it - (just turn it off or switch channels, etc.) but when it hits the ears and eyes of our children and young people in general then it's time to act and hold those responsible to greater degrees of retribution and penalties.

As the story said: Their doing it because they can get away with it. So make it to where they can't get away with it. And if they go ahead and do it anyway, they will think twice about doing it again if they have to pay a huge penalty fee for the errors of their ways.

Best regards,
Mike

While I am a proponent of freedom of speech I also think it should come with responsibility and consideration that other may not want to hear "everything" one has to say. Not to mention when one uses some of the words one uses, they are unnecessary, such as in some rap music.....I can live without the vulgar and violent language used.

On the other hand once the door is opened to censorship, where does it stop and who decides?
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

I'd like to invite these guys on my daily commute to and from Manhattan. You will hear more profanity in a span of a few minutes, that after a while it doesn't even phase you anymore.

It appears this part of the country has embraced replacing everyday words with profanity. As a matter of fact, at work the guy in the next cubicle cannot avoid using the F-word as every other word in a sentence.

I don't think there is a moral majority anymore.

This is my problem. I may or may not mind profanity on Tv, movies or such. Either way I have a choice. I can watch or turn off, I can go to the movie / play or I can save my money and go do something else. Whatever I decide it is my choice. I DO NOT need someone to make those decisions for me. I do not need someone else to impose their morality upon me.

I HATE this cover all excuse about what we are exposing our children to when it is used like this. It is panic making emotional blackmail, playing on humanities natural instinct to protect and nuture it's young whilst surrupticiously advancing the hidden agenda of the 'moralist' who are usually linked to some fundamentalist cause or firebrand religion.

I was brought up in a VERY strict religious household. We were not allowed a TV in the house. Church three times on a Sunday plus sunday school in a morning and afternoon (before proper church). This was from being a babe in arms until I was 17 when my Mum and Stepdad allowed me some freedom to decide for my self. Then during the week I was expected to attend various Bible classes, youth groups etcetera. Grace was always said before meals and the Bible was always read after homework and before bed.

Still by the time I was 12 I had an extensive 'alternative' vocabulary which would have had my Mum on her knees for a month had she ever heard me. Most of the other young folks I knew (mostly from church) were just as 'informed' as I was myself.

Kids are and will always be kids. Hide this stuff away and tell them it is bad, dangerous and not the done thing and they will go out and experiment and DELIGHT in doing so just so that they can rebel. I KNOW because I did it, and all my freinds were exactly of the same mind.

These days I moderate my language and my behaviour because I have come to learn that I and only I am responsible for my words and actions and am aware of the responsibilty I have to others. Most kids grow to be well rounded, decent members of society despite the flaws of an imperfect world.

We don't need the state (any state) protecting us from THEIR ideas of what is improper or acceptable. God gave us a brain and a mind to do that for ourselves.

Tony (rant over)

I agree with Tony. Although this invokes tremendous passion in me, I know I shouldn't go into a political discussion here and probably this has no real place on an arranger forum, so I'll leave it at that, other than to say that I am alarmed as I watch personal freedoms erode because my government thinks "it's good for me " and that I don't know how to make the right choices for myself.


AJ

Here's a story I will relate...to me it's more about respect for others freedom also to not hear it.

I had an acquaintance that my wife and I went out to dinner with...he is one that uses the F word about 6 times every sentence. There was an older couple sitting at the table next to us, finally they got up and moved to another table. Secondly, however archaic it may be I was brought up not to use that sort of language in front of women as a matter of respect. So I think this guy showed no respect for my wife either.

As far as choosing what I will or will not watch, that is fine, but when you sit down to watch something, who knows what is about to be said or done.

I suppose my position really is that we should learn and teach those that come behind us to have respect for others rights as well, to not hear vulgarity or whatever else. Rather than having to have someone try to regulate it. We don't teach those coming behind us that though.

And sorry for the double standard but I just can't get used to hearing women use the language. Words do hurt people too, many cruel things can be said that hurt others, i.e., racial slurs, sensitive matters for someone like perhaps a handicap or whatever. Or the reason it is against the law to go into a crowded place and shout FIRE.....people were killed trying to run out and were trampled in a theatre at one point when someone thought that would be funny to do.

As far as getting used to hearing it and thinking nothing of it...how sad that we become desensitized to things, what sort of society do we want anyway.....one that doesn't give a uh......uh.....well you know, about anyone or anything, just our own sense of entitlement to do and say whatever WE want. No thanks....I think we could relearn a good dose of respect for one another.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 01-16-2004).]

There is NO room for everyday TV, using foul language..There should be severe penalties and maybe no one will make a big joke about it..There is no need for youngsters being subject to this..even if they bleep the words , kids are getting the jest of it, and it instills that it is alright as adults to use bad language..it is not..respect others..personally I can endure it, if a person bugs me too much with a bad mouth[especially in front of my family members], I will reinforce my opinion to them...Kids are growing up in a tough enough world, and we should protect them the best we can..I raised my kids right and I want to help continuing to raise my grandkids right...

This discussion should be held elsewhere

I enjoy watching the television, so does my wife. If profanity starts making it's way to my favorite shows, then yes we won't watch it, but it means I am deprived of watching these shows.
Movie and show programmers feel cursing makes it real, but I don't swear neither does my wife, nor do the people I work with, neither do are friends and relatives, so how is cursing suppose to be real?
Starkeeper

Yeah......we should talk about more socially relevant things like football....yeah right, like that has any business on the forum. Or only when someone has personal issues they want to bring to the forum. If you throw one out to discuss somewhere else, then let's knock off all the off topic here and keep it to music only, which would actually suit me just as well either way. However just like this topic, picking and choosing which posts to read,is again a personal matter. So either censor them all or none, I'm sure Nigel does not want to be the judge as to which should be allowed and which shouldn't.
Terry


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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

EZ there Terry. I just think such a controversial issue is best left for s=discussion elewhere. The football talk is just a diversion because of the excitement of the playoffs. Smut and trash talk is too sensitive an issue to drag out here. That's all I was saying. Nothing good can come of it here.

I agree with Terry.

When someone starts an OT thread about the US parochial topic of American Football then the rest of us in the world simply switch off and ignore the posts as we don't know the difference between the Indians, green socks, Eagles or whatever else they are called.

Profanity on TV and Radio (and the street) is an issue that we should all care about and discuss.

My opinion only but glad I'm able to express it (might regret it though).

KF

Hey - we gave equal time to the world cup, didn't we?
I guess we all are guilty of thinking that this forum is actually IN our own backyard sometimes. It's a wonderful thing that a global understanding is beginning to spread. We're like diplomats here !

"Smut and trash talk is too sensitive to discuss here"......Whoa Dave...There are no redeeming or worthwhile qualities to profanity,,it may be okay when we are riding in a truck[inside joke], but it sure isn't sensitive enough to say nay to it..Now let me see if I can find a d---[dang] show about the Eagles up coming game with that what's their name team..

So then brickboo, lead by example and get rid of your TV. That is what my parents did. They felt that there were a hundred and one better, more educational or appropriate things for me to do than sit and watch TV.

They did not sit there and say, heck I love my tv so everyone else better moderate themselves into what I think is acceptable.

That kind of thinking is self serving and places the responsibility on other people rather than accepting it as your own.

However much I may have hated it at the time I have to respect the fact that my parents were taking responsibility for the way their kids were raised. They did not need the state to do it for them. They did not require anyone else to conform to their way of thinking or to their 'morality'. They just got on with it. Rightly or wrongly they decided what we were and were not exposed to.

What is right for me is most definately not right for you and that is just me and you..... add everyone else into the equation and there would be nothing but a blank screen to watch once we had all chipped away at offending programes. That is the problem if we go down the route of censorship because who is to say your morality is any better than mine or indeed that mine is any better than yours. I don't doubt for a second that you feel you are right, and probably with a passion. I do not agree with a lot of what you say but I will defend your right to say it. Just because I do not agree with you does not make it wrong......but that works both ways.

You don't like to watch "out of the closet" stuff on tv. That is your right. You don't like profanity on tv, cool...you should not be subjected to something that offends you. Ultimately you have total control over what you allow into your home.

Personally I hate to see women parading themselves in bikinis in a wrestling ring. However I don't demand legislation to stop it. I could bang on about how this practice is demeaning to women, reinforcing unnatainable body goals for young girls etc etc. But none of that would be the reason for me not wanting to see it. I just use those 'acceptable' and 'politically correct' arguments to dress up the fact that I don't want to see it on tv. Some folk may like it. If that is their bag who am I to rain on their parade? I turn off the box. Simple. That way everyone is happy.

Censorship is nothing more than people forcing their view of what is right onto other people simply because they 'know' it to be right and have the arrogance to assume that others cannot make the decision for themselves. Blaming it on protecting the kids reeks of an innability to find a more cohesive argument for their moral impositions.

Tony

[This message has been edited by Tony W (edited 01-16-2004).]

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.....................
Never mind...................

Brickboo,
As I said before, just because I cannot agree with what you are saying does not mean you are wrong. I have no desire to be confrontational with you or anyone else but surely I am as entitled to my point of view as you are to yours?

As far as I can tell my parents did their level best to censure my upbringing and to use your word to brainwash me into their religion, morality and life choices. After 17 years of being 'protected' I went off and did my own thing and became my own person. I know that my lifestyle and the 'way I am' is a great dissapointment to my Mum. You try living with that. I also know that IN SPITE of this she loves me unconditionally and I her. I tell you this because it proves that your argument is too simplistic. Yes I agree everyone knows what is right and wrong but ONLY within the context of their own personal moral code. I could list exactly what I TRULY believe to be right or wrong and you could do the same but the list would vastly different.

I am glad that you have a certainty about what you believe should and should not be disposed of withing society. I am not saying that to sound clever or to score a point I really mean it. I also feel strongly that you have the right to say so and to enforce the same within your own enviroment. However I feel just as strongly that you don't have the right to MAKE me conform to what you feel is right if I don't feel the same way.

To me this is plain and simple respect for the individual, allowing the same to enjoy freedom of choice and to take responsibility for his / her own life and actions.

Am I missing something or is that exactly the reason we felt the need to 'liberate' the peoples of Iraq and Afghanistan. Those people had to endure prohibition and censure on a grand scale by the state, telling them what to think, what to eat, what to drink, when to pray, who to pray to etc. etc. It is a very slippery slope.
Tony

Ok Brickboo,
I can see that there is no way we are ever going to agree on ANY of this. I don't know if you are being purposefully inflammatory or if it is just, as you indicated that you have not been overly educated. You have a perfect right to believe whatever you want to believe so let's just leave it at that.

Best wishes
Tony

[This message has been edited by Tony W (edited 01-16-2004).]

Tony & Bricaboo,
I understand where and why you are both coming from where you are. Both have good and valid points.

The only thing I will add to the discussion, is that people have proven they are not responsible enough to be left alone. Whether or not it's because they were raised wrong or peer pressure or whatever excuse one wants to make for being a jerk. Without rules and penalties for infraction of the rules, we would have chaos. One has seen that very clearly demonstrated everytime a riot has broken out, or druken college kids on spring break, people for the most part given half a chance cannot behave themselves. If they could we would not need laws or the constitution, courts, prisons, etc.

I do think though that you two without knowing it are actually debating different points rather than the simple question posed here, should TV be cleaned up.

There has to be an accepted code of conduct and morality that a society can agree on. In it's simpilest terms, we can all agree murder is wrong. We do not cry foul because there are laws and penalties for murdering someone. Of course vulgarity does not compare, but again we are back to an acceptable code of conduct.

I have to say that I am a bleeding heart liberal always was and always will be, however that does not mean anything can and should be ok. If TV or people cannot govern themselves then unfortunately it is then left to governments to step in and make people behave in an acceptable manner, which has to be determined by the majority of society. In essence we need to be protected from ourselves.

Right now my impression is the young kids are foul mouthed, totally unmotivated, with very little if any respect for anyone or anything (not all of course)and I blame the parents (not all, some do all the right things and their kids still turn out to be creeps or visa versa) who raised them for this poor behaviour. From my observations most parents can't be bothered being parents anymore.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

Brick
It's a fine line really and we can't miss Tony's or my earlier point about once the door is opened where does it stop and who is to decide where the line is? It really has to be a majority decision.

I remember at a very young age using the F word in my house and remember it was the only time I ever got slapped by my Dad , who never had to again because I got the message. From then on all it took was a look from him.

All subsequent generations do different things from the previous one and enjoy different things and think differently. That is part of growing up and finding their own identity apart from their parents. For me it was shoulder length hair. For my older brother it was ducktails and a pompedore.

While I am not a prude in any sense of the word, I do think there is a time, place and channel for it. There was a new TV series that started not too long back and so the first 2 episodes we gave a try "CSI" every other word it seemed to me was some sort of profanity (exaggeration of course)but I thought, geeze do they have to say it all so often, seems like just poor writing to me. I don't know that shows have to all be Mary Poppins to me, but when we watch the old black and whites (our favs)they never swore in any of them and got the point across by great acting and writing.

It's a different generation now though that needs violence and vulgarity to entertain themselves I guess. It does permeate all that entertains them, vid games, TV, real world environment.

We have atheletic, movie or rock stars that show some of the poorest examples and a press core that supports and furthers that. We have 29 minutes of bad news on top of bad news, to be ended with a 1 minute segment of good news. It's no wonder we get a skewed view of life. Unfortunately though it's what sells papers and TV shows. Good news is boring to most. A little fender bender and traffic is going nowhere while all drive by at a snail's pace to see the blood and guts and are disappointed if they don't.

I suppose the hope is that if we all give our kids the right messages they will turn out to be good adults. If not, then it's their world to live in and deal with and we'll be gone.

I sure don't want the Jerry Falwells of the world deciding for me though what's good or bad.

We do need more parents that sit and watch a program first or at the same time before they let their kids watch it. They may be exposed to it all at a freind's house, but don't need to be exposed to it in my house. Instead we have absentee parenting. People have a baby and 3 months later they are back to work and leave their babies to be raised by strangers, day care nannies etc. so what do we expect as a result?
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 01-17-2004).]

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 01-17-2004).]

I need the help of folks here to continue in my pursuit of doing a solo thing. I have to do this, because brickwork is a bit more than I want to do now, and I can't survive on minimum wage inviting people into Wal-Mart.

So, I decided to delete all of my post on this topic and will try my best to avoid controversial subjects in the future in public on any forum.

Let's talk about an uncontroversial subject like:

Everyone here surely by now has had to figure out that the i30 is by far the best arranger ever made on Earth and will continue to be so for decades to come.

If I get any opposing comments about this statement, I will know that that particular person knows absoultely nothing about sequencing with a keyboard and is not qualified to help me in my solo music pursuit. Ha! Ha!

[This message has been edited by brickboo (edited 01-18-2004).]

brickboo:
Where are you playing? I want to give a listen to your music. Might even buy one.
Smokey

I believe the World Cup an unfair comparison here, as World Cup Soccer is an International event (which also includes a possible qualifying American team) while US Football is limited to American teams only. - Scott