I always play without it, and it never occurs to me to ask anyone: how do you play with it?

why don't you and Diki and I try an experiment. I'll play for 2 hours by myself using it..you do the same for 2 hours not using it. maybe we all will be helped by the ecumenical experiment, if taken in good faith w/o any
prejudiced thoughts to influence us starting out.



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Miami Mo

After many years of playing without a sustain pedal, last year I MADE myself start using one, and I find it very useful. Not only does it add authenticity to the piano, but I use it on guitar and Pedal Steel guitar to good advantage also. It doesn't take very long to learn, and it's another tool in our arsenal.
DonM

ok so if i find i love using the sustain, then i have to reprogram the volume pedal function to stop/start, and give up the organ swell and crescendo/decrescendo and foot fade-out, because foot-contolled stop/start is an absolute must. And just because it's not a $3k+ and overweight G70 or E80, I shouldn't expect better and have no cause for complaint? what they have left out of the E60 is a cynical deliberate cheating of the customer, pure and simple.
Roland will never see my $.

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Miami Mo

As I posted earlier, Mo, there are all kinds of MIDI pedals out there capable of triggering ALL the functions you need.

Tell me..... from your earlier post you said you need three pedals - one sustain, one start/stop, and one fill - explain how you would use a single pedal to control an arranger that had 4 variations and 7 fills?

Simplistic solutions existed in the days of simplistic arrangers, but modern ones require a change in technique. Unless you get a more expensive arranger than the E60, pretty much all modern arrangers with four variations and even more fills HAVE to be run from the front panel. Back when there was only two variations, one pedal easily toggled between them. Now, it's a lot more complex.

I agree that Roland should have included the FC-7 input (more sales for them!), but chose cost over convenience. As, unfortunately, most others do too. The PA800 is a much more expensive arranger than the E60, and includes a multi pedal input, but their low end arrangers don't.... You never buying ANYTHING again? Just exactly HOW many 76 note arrangers are there out there with ANY kind of multi pedal input at the E60's price point?

I would have to change my technique drastically if I could not use the FC-7 on my G70 (I do a LOT of LH bass) so it dictated my choice of arranger, along with a need for 76 keys. In this category, essentially you have the G70 and the PA1XPro. All the rest are very rare and expensive and not available in my area (FL panhandle). So G70 it was. I am amazed you would rather trade off the extra octave or so, rather than use MIDI pedals.

BTW, after 40yrs playing organ and piano and synths (35yrs full-time professionally), I don't think an extra 20 minutes spent without a sustain pedal will teach me anything I don't already know. However, being self-taught, perhaps you shouldn't as easily dismiss advice from friends that know how to play with AND without a sustain pedal.....

keysvocalssax -
no harm intended!
actually, i'll tell you how i got to play with sustain pedal. it was back in my early days, of course, my old KAWAI had no sustain pedal, and i was invited to play a song at a wedding for my friends. i was very happy about it and because the pedal was there, i used it. at the end, the host musician asked me if i ever used a sustain pedal before... hehe, i realised i didn t do good.
so, after that, i started playing keyboard for the church and it was then when i learned how to use it. it takes you five minutes to get the point and after that of course longer to exercise. believe me, i played with and without pedal. is perfectly ok if you can/want to do without. is just that you miss some things, that's all.

diki and adam,
thanks to both of you for staying with me and trying to help. this is the kind of spirit that makes sz so great, and why i stay with it through all the axe-grinding nonsense.
you are both absolutely right: just because i have managed ok w/o sustain doesn't mean i should ignore or dismiss it. maybe because i never really worked at it, when i did try it i felt it affected my playing negatively. it makes little sense they would put that pedal on kb's for 200 yrs for no good reason, so I am going to now practice with it until i get the hang of it. thanks to you both!

of course you are also right about my overreaction to Roland's leaving off the foot controller input. just my frustration coming out, any product they make i like i'm not going to boycott the company, i'm going to buy it.
( would love to have some reports on the AS-300 sound system, but unfortunately nothing from anyone on it on the net anywhere except just company specs and promo.)

i have an ec5 controller w/my korg is35, and i find it
awkward to use my feet to move around on it even though it is well-designed. i essentially use only 3 of the 5 buttons, one on each end and one in the middle, to cut
down on misstep mishaps. i had a 3-pad controller during
my trial with Genesys Pro, with nice big pads to limit mishits, and loved using it.One i use for stop/start, on i use for favorite fill, one i use for block-chord harmony (when i want to throw in a little Garner or Shearing shtik for a few bars) the one i use for fills i just program to the one fill i would most use--so i don't really feel i need it to toggle--as i said i'm pretty good with my hands, just want the essentials at my feet.

diki, if i haven't bought the pa800 by the time the E60
comes out, maybe i could still buy the E60, especially with the info you are giving me about midi pedals. i know what midi is, but embarrased to admit I haven't the slightest idea how tto apply that to foot pedals.
please spell it out for me like i'm a complete idiot, because it sounds like that could be the answer for me..



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Miami Mo

Mo.... Roland arrangers allow you to use MIDI program changes on a specific channel to trigger Variations and Fills (and Intros, Outros, and other stuff!), so you would hook the pedals up to the MIDI in, and program the pedals to send each function you need's PC when tapped. If you sit while you play, it doesn't take long for you to get used to where they are without looking (think about organ bass pedal players!). Standing is a BIT harder, but still easy enough (I usually stand, myself, and hardly ever hit the wrong button - and I've got seven!)

Behringer and Roland both make excellent, flexible MIDI pedals, although they can be a bit daunting for the beginner to program.... Find a local MIDI guru to help you out initially, and all should be fine.

BUT....... as in all things TRY BEFORE YOU BUY! Make SURE I'm not talking out my you-know-where before you part with your hard-earned cash!

KVS _
you're welcome, friend!

diki _
interesting what you explained about midi pedals. i never used those before, and didn t think much about it, but now, reading your post, i realize it might be a good option.

Pg. 13 in the Parameter Reference gives you the list of what can be controlled in the style section by MIDI....

thanks!