I hope someone who reads this may be able to offer me some advice. I started playing arrangers about 4 years ago. I love it! I am confident that (with more practice) I will be ready to start gigging w/my keys and/or my sax. OK - I have started to develop some pretty serious pain in my back right below the shoulder blades. It seems to "burn" when I am leaning over my PSR 3K with my arms extended. I have the 3K sitting on an adjustable stand (it's a QUIK-LOK double braced adjustable height).... I have the stand adjusted so I have to lean slightly forward over the keyboard, so I realize I'm "somewhat slouching"... However, to see the display on the 3K, I have to tower over it somehow...maybe I need a higher chair, I'm sitting on a regular piano bench right now...

Has anyone experienced this kind of ache from playing your boards? I must admit, on weekends, I play almost non-stop... but this weekend I had to take breaks today because my back is aching.

HELP! I don't want to play "less" and taking 4 MOTRIN's at a pop is not good for me either...

Thanks in advance to any and all who offer me some assistance! You guys are GREAT!

Randy

Slouching is not a good thing to do. It will give you the back problem you are talking about and also will fatigue your entire body. I can tell you this from my own personal experience as well as from observing my students.

I use an organ bench. It is higher than a piano bench. But it all depends how high your keyboard is.

Main thing is you either need to sit higher and/or lower your keyboard.

Once you experiment finding a better relationship between the keyboard and your bench, experiment moving the bench in different positions closer to the keyboard than normal and gradually move the bench away until you find a comfortable spot where you can sit straight. Once you've done that try to find your center of balance by tilting a little forward and then try tilting backward.

With a little experimenting doing this you will locate your center of balance and be able to play for hours.

I used this to correct one students problem who had a very bad back problem. She was older and had deteriorating vertebrae. She could only play for 15 minutes and had to stop. She was going to give up playing because the pain was unbearable.

I had her go through the above series of movements and we found her center of balance which allowed her to be comfortable sitting at the organ.

I talked to her a couple days later and she was so happy that she was now able to play a few hours at a time.

Hope this helps.

Best
Scott Langholff
http://ScottLMusic.com

Hi Randy

Hey, I just noticed you're from Niceville. I live in Pensacola. I have students who live in Niceville.

Best
Scott

Randy,

Most high back pain is usually the result of posture, essentually your position in relation to the keyboard. First, a standard piano bench doesn't provide you with any support at all, and it's likely too low for performing while still maintaining good eye contact with your audiences.

I've been using the Quiklok D-749 for about two years and my upper back no longer experiences the pains you described.

It provides the correct height in relation to the keyboard so your forearms are horizontal while your biceps are vertical, which is the preferable position. It also provides much needed support for your lower back, which also takes a beating using a standard piano bench type seat. The D-749 is full adjustable and has a foot rest as well.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Hey Scott - sounds like you have the expertise I was hoping to find! Even though I'm now in my 50's, I can still play a tenor standing up for several hours without any problems.... I played a gig on Friday and then started the keyboard Saturday AM - next thing I knew my back was hurting. So I'm pretty sure you're right on the money. I noticed today that I had pain having my arms extended...

Sooo... I am going to reset my stand height and see if I can bring the board up to where I can sit upright - not sure how this will impact my screen on the 3K. I'll let you know - but I REALLY appreciate your response! I just took a Hydrocodone and 4 200 mg Motrin's! But I am getting better on my board! HA HA!

By the way, we are only 50 miles or so apart.. I live in Niceville. I would like to come to one of your gigs sometime..I can bring my sax along too!

Thanks again Scott for the GREAT advice - and I look forward to meeting you in person.... soon!

Randy

Hey Gary - thanks so much for the tip on the seat! I am going to check into getting one of those - I agree, the bench I have seems low and with no back support, and playing for hours on end (can't seem to quit playing that thing!) I always end up "limping away" from the board!

I am NOT going to play another song til I move the height on the stand...and I am going to get a chair w/back support in there. I'm also going to check out the QUIK-LOK chair - it looks like "Just what the doctor ordered"...

Thanks again for the great tip and your time!

Randy

Hi Randy, I concur with Scott & Gary. Mine isn't as fancy as Gar's, but I use a high stool as well, and a double braced keyboard stand that's adjusted to the correct height, relative to the stool, and am no longer suffering the similar back pain I had to yours. I'm confident once you make the suggested changes, you're going to feel alot better and play better too. Good luck. - Scott

I play four hours a night almost every night and the correct position is essential.
I have used a draftsman type stool I got at Office Depot years ago. It has a back, swivels, adjusts up and down and has rollers, so I don't have to carry it. I would sooner lose my keyboard than my stool! I actually vary the height during the night to change positions.
DonM

Scott and Don - thanks again for the great advice. I wanted some reassurance that it was indeed my playing that was "killing me"... sounds like several of you have been there - so I am very glad I checked on here. I am going to invest in a good chair w/backrest and get my stand adjusted. I may wear my back support - just to help remind me to "not be a slouch".

Thanks again for the help! I have to tell you guys that I have played a lot of gigs w/my sax and I truly love playing the sax - but to be honest, I really love to play the arranger and look forward to taking it along to "my first gig playing both" (which may be in a month or so).

Thanks again so much for the advice!
Randy

I too have to take some care to avoid posture problems giving me grief. Stooping is an absolute no-no!

Since I had to retire my old Ensoniq SD1 I've been using the 3k on its own; and in the resulting lower location I have some trouble looking down at the display. I am thinking about using a small LCD (TFT) screen driven off the 3k video output that I could position at a more comfortable location.

Hey Randy,

I used to suffer pain in the back in exactly the same spot as you described and my Doctor told me it was positional arthritis. The cause at that time was playing stacked instruments 6 days a week four hours a night where a lot of the time my arm was extended straight out in front. )This is a common ailment also for painters and decorators)

I then started to use a single master controller for any/all keyboards and made sure my posture was absolutely spot on. This I did by getting a higher stool. I also had to modify my double braced quiklok stand by drilling an extra hole in the circular lock plate in order to set the stand at the ideal position.

Dont suffer - try all of the above - you'll know when you've got it right.

Regards - Keith

Now you got my attention. I played a wedding once in Niceville. I went to Florida State in the early to mid 70's and played 6 nights a week at the Viking Lounge on the rooftop of the round Holiday Inn in Tallahassee. One of the waitresses was from Niceville and she married a friend of mine from my hometown, Key West. His name was John Ulcher. I don't remember her maiden name.

Back to the topic. I agree with Gary. For long gigs I use a chair with a back. For 1 hour retirement community shows I just use a stool. Haven't had back pain in years.

Good luck,

Joe

Had the same problem, found height needed to be higher, and move closer to the keyboard, absulutly necessary, just hold your arms out straight for a while and you'll see the back muscles up high are tight to augment balance. guessing a little back rest "like Gary's" also a plus.
I use a ultra bench with a 3" thick top, and its adjustable and folds up flat for moving.(I did reposition the mounts on the bottom to make it go even higher thought).
It lets me shift positions a bit, and I can sit for hours and it never bottoms out, Its very comfortable.
Also you should take a break each hour and move around, If you don't your also going to have circulation problems on the backside of you knees eventually. Everyone who works from a chair etc should very definately take hourly breaks......Pose

Quil Lok D-749 now on sale at Sam Ash for
$99.95 lists for $149.95 at Quiklok and
$169.95 at 123 Music..... http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?ItemID=34243 go for it....
Tony Rome

Wow Guys! Thanks for all the great information! I REALLY appreciate your advice and insight on my back problem. I will put all your advice to good use - I already raised the stand and replaced my bench with a regular chair. And thanks also for the tip on the Quik-Lok chair..I will have one of them soon!

Joe - Glad to see you have fond memories of Niceville... I first came here in 75 when I was playing in the Air Force Band - yep - the "Boggy Bayou Mullet Festival" is bigger and better now than it was then! I ended up retiring here (in 1996) after 22 years - Eglin AFB was my last military assignment. If you haven't been here in a while...the town has changed...not so "sleepy" anymore. Destin has expanded nearly all the way to Panama City and continues to "condo-ize". The fishing is still pretty good here despite the ongoing population increase. The other "good news" is that there are still some playing opportunities around Destin w/the tourist trade.

Thanks again so much to all of you!

Randy

[This message has been edited by saxxman (edited 11-14-2005).]

Have a PRO evaluate your posture, setup.

And, start a relationship with a chiropractor for routine maintenance.

I play drums and keyboards and ergonomics are essential. I've been evaluated by both a drum teach and keyboard teacher. I've also deconstructed both my drum setup and keyboard setup and reconstructed them for perfect posture.

You could be doing long term damage to your joints.

Best of Luck
Al