Hello Guitarman:
As a guitarist, too, I've had great luck with the Technics KN6500 to create backing tracks. Forget the harmonizer if you're into vocals. The 6500 is particularly good for swing/jazz/easy-listening styles which is my market. Don't think this would fit your "loud drunks", if that's your primary venue. The on-board speakers are fine; but like others have said, go for a separate amplification system. In my case, I leave the keyboard at home and play along with CD-R's and minidiscs through a stereo PA setup. It works great. If available in your area, I'd recommend checking out several of the arranger keyboards before making a decision.

Yes, that's true (as did the X1), but the dedicated guitar effects give the edge to the Korg ... also the dual sequencer. Since a guitarist has no "hands on" time on the keys .... they need more auto options.
Just the way I see it. The SD1 also takes you OUT of the "monitor" game because they left out the speakers.
I am in NO way in love with the PA80, but for this scenario ..... I believe it to be the most complete choice.
These topics are not all about how it compares to the SD1. Sometimes, the SD1 is not even a consideration! (Like, with ME, for instance - sorry Danny Boy !)

Wish I was there for the Crab Fest, though !
(jealousy rears it's HUNGRY head !)

There must be more to this comment. If you are not into vocals, then you can forget the harmonizer. But I doubt you meant to say something that obvious.

Do you think vocal harmony is not a useful effect? Or do you think that the harmonizers built into arrangers (or at least into a KN-6500) are not very good?

From Uncle Dave's review, no internal vocal harmonizer matches the quality of the VoicePrism external unit. I don't know if Scott Yee qualifies as being "into vocals", but he does earn his keep using the vocal harmonizer on his PSR-2000 to good effect--a fact that I have had the pleasure of confirming in person. I have listened to MP3s of several of the pros in this forum, and several use internal vocal harmony units. I particularly recall being impressed with an early posting by Don Mason.

I attribute a relative lack of interest in the Roland VA series to the lack of a vocal harmony option for those keyboards. The only forum member that I can think of at the moment who owns a Roland VA series synth is Andrea (Dreamer), and he is definitely not into vocals and has one of every other synth as well.

Of course, just as an arranger keyboard cannot really take the place of bandmates, a vocal harmonizer cannot really take the place of backup singers. But I bet among members of this forum, most of those into vocals do use a vocal harmony effect some of the time.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Uncle Dave:
.
These topics are not all about how it compares to the SD1. Sometimes, the SD1 is not even a consideration! (Like, with ME, for instance - sorry Danny Boy !)

QUOTE]

UD,
Please stop with these observations .

I am an authorized KORG dealer .

However ,Ketron products are an option . Their are features that Ketron has that could really benefit guitarman .

dano

UD ,
It sounds like he is asking for options .

You have made it sound like he is asking exclusively about the PA80 and my suggestion to consider a Ketron product is not out of place .

IMHO I believe that the onboard speakers of a PA80 are not powerful enough to handle a crowd of 30 to 50 as mentioned .

The drum and bass feature ( available on the SD1 + XD series) is a handy tool for guitarist .
Direct playback of sequences would also be a handy tool . That's just my opinion .

dan


[This message has been edited by DanO1 (edited 11-05-2002).]

guitarman,
Following in Dan's spirit here, here's boards I think you should look at:

Tyros, PSR 9000 & 9k pro, Ketron sd1 & xd 9. Korg PA 80, Gem Genesys, Technics,

Visit the sites for all and have a look at features and see what suits you once you narrow it down, then go play or listen to demos online and ask Q's about them here. All of the boards I have mentioned, someone here owns and could answer for you.
jam on,
Terry

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 11-05-2002).]

Hi
Well i had to say hello, i'm a guitarist and i use midi bass pedals and an sd1 keyboard. I had a Korg i4 keyboard which replaced the roland ra50 that i purchased some years back. I did purchase a yamaha 9000 keyboard and was really excited with it in the house for a few weeks after i purchased it, but when i took it out live in a large club it just could not produce the sound, it was running through a 3 kilowatt rig with four 15 inch bass bins, mid 12's(4) 4 slotted tweeters and a pair of longthrow horns. The sound was so thin with no balls is the only way to describe it. I had a friend who purchased one a week after hearing mine, he sold his 2 months after describing it as a "nice toy". We went to the Ketron sd1 the difference is between chalk and cheese. Full sound on the drums and backing and must say one of the best harmoniers i have used, and must admit the styles really suit my modern country 60's style of music. I cannot comment too much on the right hand sounds as i really only use the ketron for the backings. This is not a dig this is just what i found gigging in the real world, many people will probably be in total disagreement. I was hoping to find a way of storing the styles in the ketron on to computer or been able to arrange the drums on the computer to make a c.d but i don't think there is an easy way
Best regards
Vikki (u.k)

Dan,
You KNOW I love ya! It's just as soon as anyone askes about a specific situation - you chime right in wih how it relates to the SD1. I realize that you love that kb the best, but I'm a little tired of hearing it as your "second comming" keyboard. I wouldn't own one if it cost less than the PSR2000, even though it has some truly great features, and just about the best drums sound out there.
We're not fighting here. I just try to give advise to the specific question, and not push the products that I sell as the first choice in almost all situations. I understand that you are excited about that kb - and that's great, really.
I just think my opinions are more objective in this matter. You have Ketron blinders on, where I have NO love for ANY of the offerings this year. The top three reasons I suggested the Korg were the dual seq (Ketron has none), the guitar effects (none again) and the multi outs (ok, Ketron has em). I also thought that a speaker model was more useful and the SD1 leaves that out as well.
Lets not squabble - We have a lot of history, and you are very passionate about your main product line. I speak strictly from a users point of view and not a sales floor. I play them ALL, and I report on how they stack up to each other.
Now, about those gigantic crabs ...... ???

Hi, I am back. Maybe I forgot to mention that I only get to the forum once or twice a week (but I go back and read a lot!!!)

I really appreciate the response and the answers are what I wanted- to stimulate some idea's of what I may be looking for that I currently don't know about.

For instance that the SD1 has two inputs, if I decide to go with a simplistic setup withou using a mixer that feature combined with the Drum and Bass feature (which I also have to look into) and the MIDI pedals (which I have always thought about) could be the ticket.

However the SamAsh near me does not carry an SD1 and I dont believe I have seen one at 48th Street either (Mannys, SamAsh and a few others on one city block- but mostly guitars). Thanks Dan01 because although I knew of the SD1 I at least have to look into more.

There was more support of the Korg PA80 than others (weven Tryos) and I admit that this was going to be my Christmas present for me until I heard the new about Tyros. I wont get gear lust as long as no new keyboard announcements come out before then.

Tyros would mean a separate mixer (which also means general improvement in overall sound) so I can use a few different guitars. Maybe I wont have to play if the mega voices are that good (hey I hope they are not better than me!- Good thing you can watch even if there is a little guitar player in there (from recent post of internals).

Korg PA80/ SD1 could mean I can sling a guitar over my back and a keyboard under my arm- roll in and get drunk with the others and not have to worry about leaving too many things behind.
My guess now is that if I like the lighter, more simple method (knowing free music for free beer and flirting... well the sound quality is not that much of an issue).

Finally Uncle Dave.. are you really my Uncle? I lost one a long time ago (same first name) and I have been reading your posts for so long that it left me wondering...

Thank you so much. This year has been the roughest year in the last 10 years for our small family (wife and twin 17 months girls). Our little NYC business nearly flushed, 5 of 7 accounts lost since SEP11-2001, FEMA made 158 separate inforamtion requests in order for us to be eligible for assistance and it is finally in the final stages of approval It was getting bad last month when I come home open the mailbox last month to find an eviction notice and open the door to our apartment to find my wife and children playing under candle light because they shut off our electricity.
I was really glad I saw the italian movie with the father protecting the kid from the horrors of the Nazi camp. Its just electricity, just one night and we all slept together in same bed with extra blanjets to keep warm. Things have improved since then (it was the kick in the ass that did it that night) and my wife and did not sell off our prized possessions. And no I wont be using the FEMA funds to buy the keyboard- that is strickly to payback loans- trust me; they make you sign a 5 year jail term clause if I spend the money elsewhere (is the Tryos worth the risk).

Well I did not mean to bore you with the story. But perhaps with all the debate on what is important for our government to act on I dont want anyone to forget that althought some died (worst); some lost everything and had to start over (terrible..horrible) and some are still fighting to keep their dreams alive (constant stress that ages you physically and a real challange.. but better than the other 2 above).

Anyway, if Uncle Dave and Dan01 (2 of my all time favorites) can have it out on my post then I think its okay to remind some people that what happened to me, a 2 or 3 year financial setback could really happen again to some others (we were pre-approved, had a sizeable downpayment and were activiley loooking for a house).

I also say this because I have enough info to do more research and learned that some people really do have strong preferences and I have the same for guitars (although my preferences are older models).

Thanks again
guitarman

BuleriaChk- I will email you later- I do a reasonable fake of a flamenco guitarist as well as a sarod player. But I am interested in how you use the arranger with flamenco.

DanO and I are very good friends, and I'm sure he knows I am not attacking him. Actually, after re-reading my comments - I'm sorry I even said that remark about the SD1. There was no real purpose, and I wish I had not rushed into it. Sorry pal - didn't mean for it to sound so harsh.
As far as my "Uncle" status - I posted the reason on my website ( a meager, little page) that you can view if you check my profile above. The link is there.

So ....... hoping no ones feelings are hurt, I remain,
Your humble Uncle
(humbleuncle, that sounds funny !)