Well, I think Steve made pretty clear: they sell. That's all. If all the world decided to dislike smaller keys, Yamaha would change their standard size for PSR keyboards, you can bet on it. Very simple.

Sure I appreciate a good full size set of keys (when I bought the Tyros I had the opportunity to test how better the 9000 Pro or the Ketron SD1 both felt in my hands), but for its purpose (my own amusement and some musical jobs) an arranger keyboard with the Yamaha standard key size is completely acceptable for me, especialy taking in consideration that in the final compromise, the weight is very important. The only real disadvantage is to adapt to a pure piano playing technique (which is not the main specialty of these keyboards). But for that specific purpose, I will look for a real piano or for the best hammer simulation mechanism I can find.

-- José.

matias,

The reason they sell is because they're at the top of list when it comes to 'sound quality' and functionality. And the price point is usually at or better than the competition. That is why they sell, period.

If Yamaha made Keyboards with 'true' full size Keys yet didn't provide what I stated above, you can be sure that most Keyboardists' would look elsewhere for their Keyboard needs.

And if other Manufacturers had the 'quality sounds' and functionality as we see in Yamaha Keyboards at a good price point, ie., "at or below the competition", and HAD Full size Keys you can bet that nearly "ALL" people shopping for a Keyboard would buy from those Manufacturers. Because they get the benefit of not only 'quality sounds' and functionality but also 'true' Full size Keys.

People are willing to put up with smaller Keys if they get a Board with quality sounds and functionality at a price that is usually below the competition. So even though Yamaha has the smaller Keys other Brands don't sell as well as Yamaha's because - though the other Brands have 'true' Full size keys they don't necessarily have the 'quality sounds' and functionality (ease of use) and at a better price point than the competition, ie., (Yamaha) does. But you can be sure that if the other Manufacturers had all the ingredients I listed AND Full size Keys they - "Keyboardists" - would unequivocally buy those Boards.

Maybe why Yamaha is able to offer Keyboards at a better price point is because they save money by making them with 'smaller' Keys? Yes, I am being sarcastic because we all know that the Keys aren't made of ivory anymore so making the Keys a little larger adds little if ANY cost to the cost of Manufacturing them.

Best regards,
Mike

I find it intriguing that a small number of individuals claim they can actually feel the difference of 4/10-MM. What I find equally amusing is they claim it hampers their playing ability.

To put things in perspective, I guess these individuals can only drive vehicles with certain size steering wheels, gas pedals, brake pedals, windsheilds, doors, etc. Oh contraire! They don't have a problem with cars--only keyboard keys.

Amazingly, I personally know a few of the best piano players in the nation, musicians who have performed with the best of the best big-band orchestras, and when I posed the question to each and every one of them (three to be exact) they all said the same thing. "Either you can play or you can't play." Even though all three had played various keyboards from time to time, they said they were unaware of a difference in size. As for the feel, they agreed that keyboard keys, overall, are lighter, which by the way, they perferred over piano keys because it required less effort to get the same level of sound. As I said earlier "Fuhgedaboudit." I just hope that Yamaha continues to make these incredible keyboards in the same manner they've been making them. without Yamaha, many of us would have a lot of trouble making a living in this business. Not only have they provided us with the greatest voices in the industry, they have also continously upgraded their models to where most of us are astonished when we hear the styles and voices coming out of the speakers. For me personally, the key size is just fine, and larger or smaller would not make a bit of difference in my ability to perform. As one of the piano players, and the owner of a major music store put it "If key size poses a problem to your performances, you should probably think seriously about taking up golf--they'll custom build golf clubs for anyone who wants to pay the price."

Cheers,

Gary

"they'll custom build golf clubs for anyone who wants to pay the price."
... and I'm the one who can build them for you!
DonM

Well, I come from very interesting perspective. I actually grew up, musically, on 61-keys Yamaha keyboards. When I tried playing other keyboards and the piano, I felt that they are the one that are wrong and Yamaha was right. Now of course I like the piano feel of the real piano, but when I play PSR740, I cannot tell the difference, at least not consciously. I believe both give you different experience of playing. Maybe it is related to Scottyee point of view that one can adapt mentally to switch between various keyboard sizes. Maybe I should email my music teacher in college and ask if this matters at all.

By the way, there is an intellectual depth to this discussion. Let us enjoy it.

The difference over an entire octave is the main issue. As a LH bass player, octaves are played quite regularly, and when your hand is stretched to the proper distance after years and years of training, and you miss the target note ... it leads to frustration, bad sound and lack of concentration.
All bad things in performance.

It's not a minor difference ...
It's a huge diference. Sometimes it's the difference between a wrong note and a right one. It's one thing to rest your hand down in a chord position every 4 or 5 beats with plenty of time to switch to the next chord, but it's entirelly different when you are playing manual, complex lines with the left hand and full, multi-note chord patterns with the right (almost like a counterpoint lesson)....and missing your mark because the notes that SHOULD be there .... are 1/8 of an inch a way.
Makes me nuts.
Almost as much as the misuse of your/you're.

Does anyone know if the Motif ES 8 has the larger keys or are they the same as the MO ES 6&7?

Steve?

Thanks
Al

Hi Mike,

Unless a survey in conducted, we will never know if there are more Yamaha users like Uncle, mad with those baby keys, right?

I agree with you, the sales success of a keyboard reflects a combination of many factors and features (and sounds & styles are indeed a strong point for Yamaha). It's the final compromise that is under judgment by potencial costumers, and not a particular feature. As long as they sell, Yamaha is not going to question their old choice for the key size.

Gary, I have another Yamaha keyboard at home, a DGX300, and while its price is around 1/5 of the price of the Tyros, it has full size keys (however, I slighly prefer the way keys react to pressure on the Tyros). Believe it or not, the difference is visually noticeable (not only the size but also the shape) and when played in a piano style, with both hands, I can perfectly tell the difference. When I play these keyboards as arrangers are usually played, demading less hand skills, either I hardly tell the difference or I unconsciously quickly adapt to both shapes/sizes. So, in this point, I'm quite in peace with Yamaha.

I think Uncle Dave toke my first post on the subject too seriously, althought I abundantly used smileys Absolutely no intention to comment on your "love life", Dave. I thought that the key size was just an excuse for you to get rid of the Tyros

-- José.

[This message has been edited by matias (edited 10-14-2003).]

I have to tell you Gary, I take issue with your inferences here. That's pretty snobbish I think. I'm one of those guys you refer to, but more the issue is the key feel to me than the size. If that troubles you, so be it.. but I don't think I need you to tell me that you think I should take up golf or something. Maybe if you had ever seen or heard me play, and you wanted to add that comment.... but.. I don't think so..

So far in the past 30+ years noone has told me that though.. including some very talnted and demanding studio musicians I've worked with.

I'm not the best player on earth I'm sure, and I continue to l;earn every day and hopefully as long as I live. That said, in all honesty, I haven't met too many players that I think are that far ahead of me either. I can play any keyboard you put in front of me whether it be an acoustic grand or a PSr2000, and be proficient on it. But, I don't prefer to use an instrument that I feel hinders my performance. At times I play some very intense solos and intricate rythyms, and I want something that doesn't feel like a wet sponge under my fingers when I play. Much like my guitarist, who prefers certain strings and guitar feels to other's. He can play everything from Robin Trower hard edged style blues to just about anything DiMeola and John McLaughlin / Mahavishnu have ever released. I doubt I would be telling him to take up golf if he told me he didn't like something about the feel of his guitar or the strings...

AJ

The truth has finally come out. Gary really does work for Yamaha. His Gigs are just something on the side to divert attention from his true line of work.

Love ya Gar! It's nice to know we have the freedom to express our thoughts even though they may be wrong.

Best regards,
Mike