. . . but it wasn't Yamaha who listened, it was Ketron! And then Scott didn't buy one anyway!!
DonM

AMEN

The reason we are all having this discussion is because of two simple facts:

1) Tyros has an excellent sounds and styles

2) Tyros is light in weight.

And so we are bringing our own issues on how to make an excellent keyboard even better.

Some of these issues are legitimate, some are legitimate for particular kind of use and some are legitimate for group of users who play certain way.

How we should handle these logically?

1) We should realise that whatever works for one does not mean it works for the other. Let us respect that others have different needs. That does not mean it is a legitimate issue for the majority of users. But at the same time, it does not mean that Yamaha automatically should ignore it.

2) We ought to realise that we are discussing an instrument and not merely group of people. So we should feel comfortable criticizing the instrument but at the same time, and more importantly, we should feel comfortable listening to the criticism and listening to the rebutals.

3) In this topic, which I personally followed carefully, no one is saying that Tyros is bad. In the contrary, the implication is very clear: Tyros can arguablly be considered the best keyboard in sounds and styles. That is precisely why many are criticizing it. Because, to them, the alternative is not getting the best in sounds and styles. That is not my opinion for I have not heard any instrument. I really do not know.

To me, the most important issue I have with Tyros is the following: PRICE. Not that it is priced wrong but that I cannot afford it at the moment. Any suggestions?

I guess I need to CLARIFY things here. This rootless chord thing was neither my invention or disccovery. This rootless chord voicing style has been popularly utilized by pro players for over 40 years and the credit goes to legendary jazz pianist great: Bill Evans.

Also: BOTH Yamaha & Technics have long included 'rootless chord' recognition in their arrangers way before I had ever pushed for the other arranger kb manufacterers to include it as well.

Yes, I thank & commend Ketron (particularly to Sandro) for both listening & getting onboard with this, but unfortunately there were other Ketron issues (confusing OS/button navigation & product reliability problems) that kept me from going the SD1 or XD9 route.

I think it's IMPORTANT to keep things in perspective and realize that most ALL arranger keyboards manufactered in the last few years offer the tools & sounds needed to make GREAT MUSIC. Perhaps instead of complaining so much about what's missing from our kbs, it's time to polish our musicianship skills to maximize what our current keyboard has to offer. I continue to enjoy both my Yamaha Tyros & PSR2000 for different reasons. - Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 10-15-2003).]

Hi sk880user

I like your concept about what is going on here. I agree with you.

As far as ideas about getting a Tyros, the Yamaha psr style group on Yahoo has a group purchase of $2300 for the keyboard itself. You may want to watch ebay. I have bought several things there and got some incredible prices. I got my PSR2000 there and also my JBL Eon 10G2's. I will be receiving my Tyros case shortly from an ebay auction. I've been recycling old gear that was just collecting dust, sold them on ebay and used that to finance practically all my equipment listed above and also for my Tyros.

I would also suggest watching the for sale ads on the forums. Thats were I found mine, on SVPworld. It was 2 1/2 months old and the guy needed money quick. We negotiated, I talked to him on the phone, qualified him as being a good guy to deal with and had it shipped overnight. It included a Hitatchi 30gb hard drive. He took a beating and I got a deal, but we both won, we both got what we wanted.

Even though I've started a lot of posts about fraud on ebay, most people are honest and if you email them and talk on the phone one can get a pretty good feel if its right or not.

The other thing is monthly payments, on your own or someone elses credit card. Monthly payments run about 2% of the purchase price, so for about $40 a month you've got yourself a pro keyboard.

Hope this gives you some ideas. I really believe if you know what you want and move ahead thinking you'll get it somehow, then the way shows itself to you.

Best
Scott Langholff

Scott,

Thanks for the ideas.


But I guess that shows the importance of the quality of sounds and styles in top arrangers. This is will attract the musicians above everything.

Look at Tyros: very few features compared to the rest; a glorified PSR keyboard. But simply sells as high as the other arrangers simply due to its superior sounds and styles.

I guess this is a lesson to Casio. They are managing to get cheap and rich instruments. If they can only stop for minute and think about beating yamaha in sounds and styles.

Do you think Casio will ever jump on the "Pro Train" again and be a contender?

Casio have released the MZ3x00 series in the UK (there was a posting in here a while back from George Kaye perhaps?). 5 and 6 octave keyboards, some with smartmedia storage. I've not got to play one yet but the spec looks good.

Maybe this will persuade Yamaha to release the Pro2100 with 76 keys and removable flash storage...

It seems to me that the future would be like Genesys where Everything is in flash or something like that.

So one would buy a very cheap hardware with no sounds and styles. Then one has to buy those separately from 3rd party manufacturer. In this case, Yamaha would be more of a software company providing such sounds and styles libraries; while Casio provide the cheaper keyboards. GeneralMusic will provide the high end keyboard.

If I have a question is that how much did it cost Yamaha to develop these sounds and styles as a percentage of the cost of the whole Tyros?

I might aswell add a reply here seeming that everybody else has.
I play the yamaha digital piano P80 and play in octave style (boogie woogie on left hand)and practice hours and hours on scales on both hands.
Have psr 2100 also for my arranger board.I dont have any problem at all in adjusting to the smaller keys directly after pounding away at the piano.I think your fingers adjust without even thinking about it.

If you try to practice finger runs without the use of keys,lets say on the edge of a desk at work and play 2 octaves starting in the exact position every time,can you say that you end the scale in exactly the same position,The answer is no.
So after doing this quick test it tells me that your fingers will adjust to any size keyboard within reason ofcoarse.
I find that the difference in the key down stroke more of an issue than the width of the keys,having said that I can still adjust to that with no problem.