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#140727 - 02/23/05 02:08 AM Re: NEW ARRANGER SOFTWARE #1
RicFreak Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 135
Loc: Italy
One more thing:
people here already started asking incredible things for this "product" (sound fonts, VST...).

Easy, men.

I think that what we have to build is simply a black box able to recognize a couple of chords and able to correctly transpose and modify the original MIDI sequence according to the recognized chord. Black box output will be a MIDI sequence, so that any of us can route it anywhere we like.

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#140728 - 02/23/05 03:04 AM Re: NEW ARRANGER SOFTWARE #1
FreeStyle Offline
Member

Registered: 02/20/03
Posts: 85
Loc: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
"Following starkeeper example, how can you decide if those notes belong to Am7 or to C6?"

How about using pedals? It could solve all the different chord combinations.

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#140729 - 02/23/05 04:37 AM Re: NEW ARRANGER SOFTWARE #1
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2866
Loc: Tampa, FL
I'll throw my hat in the programming side as well. I have VB/.NET/C++ and C# experience.

I also have much experience with User Interfaces and the Human Experience in interface design.

Al
_________________________
Al

Pa4x - LD Systems Maui 28 - Mackie Thumps

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#140730 - 02/23/05 07:13 AM Re: NEW ARRANGER SOFTWARE #1
Starkeeper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 1704
Loc: Toronto
Quote:
Originally posted by RicFreak:
Following starkeeper example, how can you decide if those notes belong to Am7 or to C6?
I think that this problem has no solution, and it needs more informations to properly solve it.
One way to decide correct chord is adding another lower note which will help the machine in this decision: if lower note is C then the chord will be C6; if it's A it will be Am7.
[This message has been edited by RicFreak (edited 02-23-2005).]


I am accustomed to using inversions, playing every chord in root postion would be distracting. My left hand can change chords without me looking left, I have enough of other things to do. This is a good example of why a flexible chord recognition systme would be helpfull. I did bring up the example, but rarely, if ever use C6, am7 would be MY preffered default.
Starkeeper
_________________________
I play Roland EM20 and Yamaha PSR550

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#140731 - 02/23/05 08:08 AM Re: NEW ARRANGER SOFTWARE #1
RicFreak Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 135
Loc: Italy
Quote:
Originally posted by Starkeeper:
This is a good example of why a flexible chord recognition systme would be helpfull. I did bring up the example, but rarely, if ever use C6, am7 would be MY preffered default.
Starkeeper


Mmm.. this will lead to a product loved by Am7 players and hated by C6 players... We need a market survey to determine how many Am7 and how many C6 we have; then, how many of those are willing to have such a program ... :-()

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#140732 - 02/23/05 09:37 AM Re: NEW ARRANGER SOFTWARE #1
Starkeeper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 1704
Loc: Toronto
No. The program needs to be flexible, so that I can set it up to get my default am7 and you can set it up to get C6 when you play it in root postion. Scotty Yee can set it up to get rootless chords. (I'm surprised Scotty hasn't wade in).
Starkeeper
_________________________
I play Roland EM20 and Yamaha PSR550

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#140733 - 02/23/05 02:02 PM Re: NEW ARRANGER SOFTWARE #1
DAN.2000 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 1134
Loc: FRANCE
Hi to everyone !
I m very happy that there is a lot of musicians thinking as me
My real dream is to make the best arranger product avaible for live music and keeping it very simple!
I just finished the first step : My software recognize the keys pressed on any chanel of any midi port of the PC, So now I need to make the Algorythm witch transform the combination of keys to a CHORD Name.

WHAY I THINK ABOUT THE RECOGNITION :
-We need to define together for each number of keys pressed, the chord to display.
WHEN MULTIPLE CHOICES ARE LOGICALY CORRECT, WE NEED TO CHOOSE ONE OF THEM IN A OPTION MENU.
my first thinks are :
We will take just the example of The C key :
-If just C Key is pressed, The possibility are C Major Or C Minor. All arranger keyboard take C major, but cause it's just a choice, we need to let the choice.
-If 2 keys are pressed :
C + C# = C# Maj7
C + D = D7 (why major? perhaps we will make a global choice to make some rules as : all chord without the 3rd to be major or minor)
C + D# = C m
C + E = C Maj
C + F = F
C + F# = C dim
C + G = C
C + G# = G# Maj (I better like the Ab Maj so we will let the possibility of show the H or b on chords and notes)
C + A = Am7 or C6
C + A# = C7
C + B = C Maj 7
When there is only 2 keys, even you invert the order of the keys, the chord is still the same (C+A=A+C)
Test my first thing on your arranger and let me know if I m true.
Now we need to make the 3 Keys pressed...
Your help are welcome

Now I will try to answer to everyone :
-to the genesys: It's ok for custom rootless chord voicing.
-STAM: I don't thing changing the General Midi format is a good thing, but add a track with a special Audio Loop, and cause the SoundFont format is open, you can make your set of percussion, but it's another subject.
-Clif Anderson: Yes I want my project to be VST + ASIO Hosting, but for now I want to make a good arranger program, and just using Midi Yoke + rgcaudio's free sfz soundfount player can make a very good sound. I want to really work also on the factory preset thing, so each on of the voices must be very high quality. You can already send to me if you have a really good sampled sound of an intrument to be include in the software...
Im not reaaly aggree with the scalable fingerd recognition, cause each song have a different scale, sometimes it could have 2 scales... I don't see the recognition as a SONG thing, but as a GENERAL (and personnal) way of playing. But why not... I listen to the idea.
-Vquestor: Perhaps the drum program change sended from my software to sfz can be modified to let sfz change it correctely. And yes, for now I will do the arranger thing the best as possible.
-Bluezplayer: I like the idea too of DXi, VSTi for each track,(and vst and DX plug ins for effect) we will see how the project will come...But for starting, Forte can do the thing good with my software.
-Vquestor: It's not Dan DU France, but Dan DE France congratulation on your first french lesson... oh ! what about my english? huuuuu.
The problem is that a VST isntrument can't generate MIDI notes, but just AUDIO sound, so my software is on TOP of the chain, and give note to be played by the VST instruments...
About multipad, I had only the psr2000 for 2 weeks, but i don't reaaly now what so special with them, I will see for suporting them.
-rikkisbears: yeah audio loops will be avaible in one chanel, but I want to know what the most standard format of cutted loop to implement it!
-RicFreak have you msn? we will discuss about different technologies choice, but my choice is : PC, Windows, and less libraries as possible...my msn adress is dan2000z@hotmail.com.
Yes we must do some complicated algorythm, but don't be affraid : Audio realtimes effects or Virtual Instruments are 10000 more complicated than midi traitments. And the latency is very acceptable!Rememeber that if a 1980 10 mHz arranger keyboard was able to do the thing, A 3000 mHz computer of today can do it... Of course the way of programming will influe...
-FreeStyle: not pedal to say between each chords when it's more simple to add a 3rd note with your left hand
-kbrkr: take my msn too, we will discuss too...If you want to help me on the skins or your ergonomics ideas

So for now : we must continue on the recognition algorythm.
A first version with just chord recognition can be avaible for testing and suggestions.

So : 3 notes together different choices, and
List to me all the avaible type of chord to be avaible : Maj, Min, 7th...#13,25,42,450 lol

Dan DE France lol or Dan.
_________________________
Regards,

Dan
https://www.varranger.com

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#140734 - 02/23/05 03:01 PM Re: NEW ARRANGER SOFTWARE #1
Alex K Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/99
Posts: 732
Loc: Phoenix, AZ USA
Dan,

Please be sure to map all the functions to MIDI (sys ex) commands and provide return status, so that commercially available MIDI controllers can be used to control various functions as mapped. The status signals can be used to drive the indicator lights associated with each button.

This will go a long way in making this a user-friendly performance system, rather than point and click studio only system.

Also, as other have indicated before, playing existing styles (even from only one manufacturer) is a big plus.

Good luck,

Alex
_________________________
Regards,
Alex

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#140735 - 02/23/05 09:40 PM Re: NEW ARRANGER SOFTWARE #1
Vquestor Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 554
Quote:
Originally posted by rikkisbears:

Hi ,
I suggested Multi Pads to Jos back in Vers6 OMB (I think). Hopefully one day he may see fit to included them. I miss them.

Maybe if we all asked nicely ( haa haa)

best wishes
Rikki

p.s. Be nice if the tracks that make up the styles could be replaced by audio loops ( recorded live on real instruments) Is that something along the lines you were suggesting vquestor?


Rikki,
I had asked Jos to add multipads back
in version 5. I know it is no easy task, but
perhaps he is now close.
And regarding the audio loops,yes, they could
be played like a pattern, but could also
be played simultaneously with a pattern(if
desired by user). The loops could also be
set to play once and not loop, if desired.

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#140736 - 02/23/05 09:49 PM Re: NEW ARRANGER SOFTWARE #1
Vquestor Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 554
Quote:
Originally posted by DAN.2000:

-Vquestor: Perhaps the drum program change sended from my software to sfz can be modified to let sfz change it correctely. And yes, for now I will do the arranger thing the best as possible.

Make sure the drums are on the standard
PSR channels 9 and 10. If you can correct
the program change malfunction of sfz, it
would be great.

-Bluezplayer: I like the idea too of DXi, VSTi for each track,(and vst and DX plug ins for effect) we will see how the project will come...But for starting, Forte can do the thing good with my software.[/QUOTE]
If you want multi-track hosting, also take
a look at SynthFont which only hosts VST/VSTi.
-Vquestor: It's not Dan DU France, but Dan DE France congratulation on your first french lesson... oh ! what about my english? huuuuu.[/QUOTE]
Mercee, Misyu Dan De France.

The problem is that a VST isntrument can't generate MIDI notes, but just AUDIO sound, so my software is on TOP of the chain, and give note to be played by the VST instruments...
-rikkisbears: yeah audio loops will be avaible in one chanel, but I want to know what the most standard format of cutted loop to implement it!
[/QUOTE]
For the audio loops, I would use the standard
ACID format which is also used by Cakewalk
products.

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