Any plans for a weighted 88-key TYROS or PA-80 without speakers (or with if they want)? It seems I have to set my self towards an arranger if I want more realistic sounds as opposed to synthy arp sounds. Why is it all the big producers use MOTIF and TRITON for recording and producing? Can't you get the same quality on arrangers? The arrangers focus more on traditional sounds, but then I can't get one with 88 keys. Why is that? And don't mention the KORG SP-500 or the Yamaha PF-1000 with it's arranger like features because it has NO PITCH BEND OR MOD WHEEL! What good is that? Why can't someone make me an 88weighted combination arranger-synth workstation with sampling, vocal harmony, arpeggiators, drum rhythms, auto-accom, and plenty of real-time control instead of those d**n menus to navigate. "Look, wow, we have so few buttons. Our keyboards aren't cluttered up!" But you spend ten years navigating to what you want. Keyboards should be like your stereo system. If the volume is too high you turn it down. If the bass is too low you turn it up. You don't punch up F1, then menu 2, and select volume, then scroll your wheel down to 42.56db with a gated compressor. You simply twist a knob. I don't care, fill up the whole darn console with buttons and sliders and knobs blocked into sections (rhythm, voices, sequencer, mixer, arpegg, sampling, etc.) and then from there you get hands on control knobs and sliders and maybe a few screen menus when necessary to get more detailed. RAM? I don't care, make it 400mb ram. GIVE me sounds! Don't waste my ram on a crappy sax no one will ever use. Either leave it off or spend the extra ram and give me a good one!

I just want to play, compose, sequence, record, publish. I don't have time to modify every sound to the last nanosecond of envelope and LFO and EQ and whatever. Just give me a huge bank of sounds tailored for many different uses and a few knobs to instantly fix a sustain or vibrato or leslie or wah wah-- something that makes sense for each sound.

I just want to be a musician, not a technician. I'm losing the art of writing music because I'm becoming an editor of sound. That's not my job--it's the keyboard manufacturer's job! Don't give me chemicals and numbers to formulate pigments, just give me plain and simple paint! Give me a sonic palette to paint my aural masterpieces and quit giving me all this crap that slows me down!

Anyway, I still am wondering if there is an 88key arranger? Hmmmm....

[This message has been edited by seanbaker (edited 01-09-2003).]

Yes there is at least one and I auditioned it: Roland KF-90. Expensive, but I liked it. Acoustic pleasant styles, great keyboard action.

-- José.

I think they maybe will make an 88 key Arranger someday but I doubt if it will be "weighted". See Squeak_D's post on "Weighted Keys on a PSR" to see why. Even Semi-weighted would probably be out of the question for the same reasons. But I think more real-time control, better key "feel", and obviously better sounds would spark a greater public interest in Arrangers IMO and would give the musician greater creativity.

Sounds are what its all about and to have the ability to play those sounds in a creative real-time fashion without encumbrance would be a boon to the Arranger market and also if Manufacturers would take more labors in producing better quality sounds, get rid of the limiting factors of not enough Polyphony (Note drop off in the middle of a performance is a bummer), and add more necessary features, ie., USB 2.0/Firewire, Spdif Output, superb quality "built-in" speakers, and yes, an 88 key version would be nice too ,etc., would all be a step in the right direction IMHO. Hopefully are friends at Yamaha and others are working towards that goal.

Mike

Hi there!

I agre with you. It's totally wrong that you have to be a technician to get some music out of your instrument. But it's much, much more economic for the keyboard producer.

If you looking for a 88 key workstation... Why not the GEM SK880?
http://gem.generalmusic.com/en/products/sk/sk880.html

It's a little heavy but a real quality instrument.

regards
/ Bosse

This topic has been up lately about arrangers with weighted keys.... I posted one and there were some pretty good points made by others as well. I agree that it was pointless to not at least add a pitchbend wheel to that Korg (or at least a joystick, which is what Korg mainly uses). However, the Yamaha PF-1000 does allow pitchbending.. Keep in mind that digital is set up like a piano with 3 pedals.. One of the functions of a pedel is pitchbending. I can say if you're use to doing this on a wheel or stick, the pedal takes some adjusting to. One of the main things we talked about with the weighted keys is when you have other instruments involved that are much harder to play on with those keys like saxes, drums, bases, and guitars. Many of us here don't just play the keyboard.. I also play drums and guitar, so I know how difficult it is to do this on weighted keys. Having to edit the keyboards sounds is completely subjective really.. Regardless of what keyboard you choose there will be sounds you think are perfect and sounds you may feel need a little changing. It's all in personal tastes. It would be nice to have that one arranger or synth that has sounds taht are perfect and need no work, and huge amounts of memory, ect.. However, you don't really see this because there would be no way to keep the price reasonable to the consumer.. If you had a keyboard say that had 88 weighted keys, 400mbs of sounds, 80 gig hard drive, CD burner, Sequencer with unlimited tracks and memory (based on available memory), flawless DSP that could run a huge number of insert effects at the same time, touch screen, vocalizer, and all the bells and whistles you're going to be investing THOUSANDS of dollars for this thing.. Look at the price of the upper line arrangers like the Tyros, 9000 Pro, GEM Gen., Korg PA-80, Ketron SD-1, Technics KN-7000... These all cost several thousand dollars, and imagine what that price tag would be for the arranger that has EVERYTHING that allows you to do the work of a complete studio from the keyboard... It will be very expensive.

Squeak

Well my theory was blown out of the water wasn't it But the question is how easy would it be to play a guitar, sax, or any other instrument sound besides a Piano? Has anybody here been able to determine that? Also any easy portability is constrained beyond reason. The KF-90 is over 86 lbs. making it a real back breaker especially if you have to tote it around 3 or 4 times a week. And the Gem is not far behind at almost 75 lbs.

Wouldn't be nice if there could be a way to turn on a Hammer Action effect when playing Piano and turn it off when playing another instrument sound? The GC in San Diego might have the KF-90 on display. If they do I might check it out to see for myself how limiting a weighted arranger is on playing different sounds, (sax, guitar, 'violin', etc.

Regards,
Mike

I've tried playing the sounds on Clavinovas. It is very restrictive to me, but I am used to light touch.
DonM

Good point! I've talked to people about this before.. It would be awsome to have a keyboard that mechanically could give the feel of both weighted and synth weighted feel. It wouldn't even have to be a perfect graded hammer action, but something that could ad a more realistic feel to to the keys and then be turned off at the push of a button would be great (and expensive too)

Squeak

There is a talk about newer models for genesys. I wonder if 88 keys is one of them.

But anyway, I use sk880ps keyboard from GEM. It has 88 keys, hammer action weighted keys... The keyboard has served me very well. I like it very much.

In the future, I think I will be buying two keyboards at the same time. Light weighted arranger and dedicated 88 keys controler.

Anyone know where I can hear sound samples of this thing?

I guess this brings up a point I have never understood. How is composing a song using arpeggiated drums and bass lines on a snyth different from using the auto-accomp drums and bass (without the other parts)? All I really need is auto drums and bass to help me start my song. I orchestrate all the other parts myself. It just seems the style of the arranger makes more sense intuitively from a musical form standpoint (intro, main, fill, end, etc.). The snyth workstations may be able to create the same thing but you're left with a blank palette in the sequencer as the Korg mentions. I think the best songwriting from me comes with a little help from the back-up band department, them my ideas flow better. I guess it's up to how each person works. I jsut would prefer the style of the arranger included with synthy arp type things like the TRITON can do. I'm not talking about basic fingered arps I can play myself into the style creator of an arranger, but the types that you can't play. But also needing good realistic instrument sounds, I find the voices on arrangers tend to be better than on synths.

I guess to do what I want to do I have to buy an arranger and a synth.

Show me the money....