Which do you think is the more appropriate operating system for a software based keyboard workstation - Windows XP? or Linux?

I use the Lionstracs Mediastation for live performances and though it is currently based on the Linux O.S., some developers have begun porting the Mediastation to the Windows XP O.S. I wanted to get info and opinions from other people on Synth Zone since I may soon be faced with the option to choose which I use on my keyboard.

I know Windows XP is probably the most common of the two because of the multitude of programs designed to operate on it. Some Synth Zone members use the Wersi OAS, which is a good example of such a system. Perhaps they can give some insight to the pro's and con's of using Windows for this application.

Many of our members who are using the notebook - software synth/arranger approach- may also have feedback to offer. I did not include the Mac O.S. since this is a proprietary system that will probably not be an option for me.

Other instruments like the Muse Research "Receptor" is based on Linux or the Open Labs "Neko" or "Miko" is based on Window XP Home edition.

I am especially interested in issues like stability, user interface, flexibilty, etc.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Richard Shiflet

This is a real can of worms.

I don't think there is a definitive answer. All you can do is consider the various factors that create a particular configuration of hardware and software and make a judgement as to whether this meets you needs.

PC's in general are less reliable than Apple Macs. The PC is an open environment and anyone can in theory create software and hardware which is PC compatible. This ia fabulous in one way; almost anything conceivable is probably out there. The bad news is that it is practically impossible to predict the exact build of any particular PC upon which hardware / software will run. The composite system may be unstable due to conficts between installed hardware and software that are potentially unique to that PC! We can look accusingly at Microsoft and suggest that their software is responsible but giving them sole responsibility is a bit unfair. Loading Linux onto a PC platform might improve reliability from a software viewpoint (fewer drivers which are usually more generic will generally be more reliable) but if you have specific hardware requirements you might not find drivers.

The Mac (per Intel) has always been more reliable because it is not a free-for-all; the available hardware configurations are all tightly controlled by Apple and the Operating system and drivers rigoursly tested - you can do this if there are only a small number of options available. This tight control and consequent reliability comes at a cost; Apples cost more that PCs and the breadth of applications is smaller, but it is not coincidence that many "Professional" audio applications are written for the Mac; again the limited breadth of hardware option means that drivers can be optimised and tested to give a high degree of confidence that the platform will not crash at an embarrasing moment.

It is possible to create a totally reliable Intel / Windows configuration by using Apple Techniques - build you own hardware, write your own drivers, test them to destruction and don't load anything else onto the PC. This is unfortunately beyond the scope of most people!

I'm not sure this helps your cause but I hope it explains why it's a tough decision!

Mac/Linux/Windows are all OS's capable of hosting a music workstation application. Bigger issues, I believe, is the hardware used to drive the app, configuration of individual apps and the connectivity between applications. Look at some of the sizes of samples now available or the combinations of different plug-ins that people want to use for sounds, groves, processing etc all in real time. Is a system with 2 dual-core CPUs with 64GB of RAM an unrealistic requirement. Financially, for most, yes. But technically it may not be so far of the mark. Another related issue is how "clean" do you keep the system. Do you use it to experiment with every piece of software and utility that comes along? Hardware Specs and Software configuration are bigger issues than what OS. When you look at devices such as Liontracks or Open Labs you are looking at devices that are optimized for the task at hand. The expectation would be better performance than similarly configured PCs. However, if they are true open systems, you can probably mess them up too as much as a PC if you are not disciplined in your approach to software configuration.

All that being said, my personal preference for a laptop of Windows vs Linux would without question be Windows because music software offerings are scant on Linux as compared to Windows. As example, what are the notation software options for Linux? Pick up the current magazine of your choice and see how many software vendors list Linux as a compatible option.

In the professional music production world, most work is done on Macs. However, when needing raw horse power for things like large sound libraries I have seen several setups where banks of PC's are employed as a cheaper option to be used as slaves for computing power of instruments.

[This message has been edited by RobertG (edited 08-29-2006).]

Thanks MacAllcock and RobertG, I appreciate the replies from both of you and I agree that this can be a very complex issue.

A few facts that I probably should have explained initially may help narrow this topic and make it manageable.

1) The Mac OS is not an option. My dilema is only between using the Linux or Windows XP operating systems.

I am using a Lionstracs Mediastation X-88 Pro http://www.lionstracs.com/site/index.php . Linux is already configured and running on the mediastation. It is a very fast and reliable system for playing vst's and streaming large giga files (2 gigs and more) from the harddrive. The graphical user interface works well and is scheduled for an update with new features added in September. The only drawback to Linux seems to be that not all of the programs written for windows have complete linux compatability.

2) The second fact is that this is for a very specific hardware application. It is not going to be used on various PC clones using all manner of unknown devices but a carefully designed system that includes 12 custom daugther boards and an integrated control surface. So the factor of varying hardware and drivers conflicting should be minimized.

With these facts in mind could win xp give the same reliabilty and speed that I am currently accustomed to?

I know that compatability with "all" windows programs would be enhanced with win xp as they would be operating in their native os.

Which system will allow for the most intuative user interface?

Which gives the most flexibilty for future developement?

The Wersi OAS uses win xp, What are the pro's and con's being faced by wersi users?

These are the types of issues I would like to explore.

Thanks

Richard

Despite the fact that I've never actually used Linux (and could therefore be talking garbage here), it looks like it might do the trick for you here, assuming you can get drivers for your hardware.

Given that your hardware looks very custom then it may be you (or someone you can easily contact) writing the drivers; I suspect writing custom Linux drivers may well be easier than writing custom Windows drivers.

Whatever, best of luck!

Hi !
I m glad to announce you that after one year on hard working on virtuals arrangers for windows, I finnaly completed the Lionstracs developper team.
Since I m a Windows developper, and know very good this world, and musicals applications on PC, I started a new project using the MediaStation under Windows XP. I already developped the driver, and currently playing with vst , giga studio, and even begining of the arranger part.
Of course The work is not finished, but you can see the power of the Mediastation !!
Just install an new OS, and you will have completely annother keyboard!!!
I installed NI FM7, played an FM EP, layered with an internal ROM String sounds, and it's WAAAW !!!

I have an precise idea of the arranger of the dream, and I m now creating it...!
This version of the MediaStation will be probably different from the Linux one.

Your suggestions are very welcome for creating the arranger of the year 3000

Ps : After years of using many arranger keyboards, and after years of frustration, with not corrected bugs, low hardware performances, not care of the users..., I finnaly decide to start a new page in the arragner world, and I hope this will help all musician to find inspiration

stay in touch

DAN.2000 I'm very impressed with your work. Writing drivers is very hard work.
I want to find if it is really better working system of MS on LINUX or in WINDOWS.
I thing for me is more stable working system on LINUX. But I miss a lot of things that are working in WINDOWS.

LINUX is young but is good and real. But lot of us knows with WINDOWS better than with LINUX or other O.S.

Oh no - use of the word "better" without qualification.

I deliberately avoided comparatives; the "best" solution depends on the context.

For what I do at home, XP is the only choice. I have no valid reason to explore other possibilities. But that doesn't make it "better", just the best choice for me.

Hi All
1. The more software you put on a computer (No mater what OS) the more chance of it falling over.

2. There will always be more software for Windows as it has about 80% of the world market, so software produces know they can make money.

3. Studios that use computers for music use them only for music.

4. The Mediastaion software has been optimised for Linux and Linux optimised for the Mediastation software.

5. The Wersi OAS software has been optimised for Windows and Windows has been optimised for OAS, which is why a lot of other Windows programs (Non Music) will not work correctly.
Wersi have achieved this by disabling any Windows service or function that is not required for music production.
Hope this helps.

Bill

I believe Linux should be a "better" solution because it can be "bred" to answer specific needs. Windows is a much more universal platform.

Their goal might be similar but the course taken is different.

Windows was developed to be the "all in one solution, everybody can fit in". Thus it contains many many things that are irrelevant to music. I suspect you would have to "thin" it out very aggresively to overcome potential disasters from unwanted portions. I suspect Wersi did just that.

Linux might be a more suitable candidate, because in my mind it is far more modular and "low-level" and might provide a more stripped down and fat free platform as a base.

Why LINUX and NOT WINDOWS?
Lionstracs believes that Windows is the wrong Operating System in a keyboard workstation for the following reasons: Windows is too prone to crashing and CallTask bugs , is quite costly, has a messy licensing scheme, is not optimized for real time audio applications, the source code of the operating system is not available so end users can tweak it, integrating standalone applications (Cubase, Gigastudio, Kontakt, etc.) into the keyboard UI is nearly impossible because those applications were not designed to be used in a live keyboard.

Like it or not, it's time for a change in the keyboard world. Lionstracs believes that change is not coming from other large scale keyboard manufacturers because they are still trying to sell their embedded keyboards as if they are state of the art.

The truth is most keyboards manufactured and marketed today are older technology with a few new sounds thrown in but still contain chips that are over a decade old.

Remember when Scientists first claimed the earth was not flat and were ridiculed?
In the end the Scientists were right and today with keyboard technology it's a very similar situation.
Only time will tell what the future holds but Lionstracs will be on the forefront with LINUX and the Mediastation models.

You there already know that we have ready the all windows XP driver for the mediastation and is really working good.
All the VST plugings are working, Cubase SX, Logic audio5.5, OMB and much more, this is normal, we know.
Now the mediastation with XP is working about the same like the Openlabs, we can do the same stuff, but for what? just for open the VST in one display and play it over with the keyboards?
All the VST and application functions, knobs, sliders are NOT linked with the Mediastation sliders and 172 LED keys, we have to use right now with the touch screen, like the Neko.
I really dont like this OS way, because is really hard to control the all application by the touchscreen and have just some functions linked in some keys.
Untill we cant have the souce code of the windows application, is really hard to make what we can do under Linux.

Anyway now give the possibility to have the mediastation with the windows XP OS, you can choose what OS to booting.
Regards

Hello Lionstracs
Wersi solved the button and slider problem by designing them so that the boards they are attached to output Midi codes, that way the OAS software can easily be programmed to use the buttons and sliders by converting the codes into whatever operation they require, (Other software can also use these codes) also if you have VSTs with learning functions, you can select what part of the VST you wish to control, press the learn key, followed by whatever button or slider you wish to control this function, which then gives you real time control of the VST without the use of the touch screen.
Hope this helps.

Bill

Domenik is the big boss of Lionstracs and he choose linux for its embeded Keyboard.
If I was the boss, I did choose a free OS too

I don't know linux at all. I discoverd it with the MediaStation.

Finaly we can do all what we want with linux...Internet, write letters, make music, see video...

But for me, it's just like I m not in MY home, with all MY references marks.

Depiste of this, I found the MS very responsive with windows XP (more than Linux!!) even I have an old prototype for developpers with an not powerful PC.

It's for me a true pleasure to play music with all my -years of collect- vst, applications and sample sounds, in just one keyboard...
I can say the truth... VST is very good, but when I know that I must turn on my studio computer, plug the midi interface, plug the midi keyboard, launch applications...uuuu I prefer going here to read how other are making music

Domenik, of course Linux was a very smart project, and very usefull , but I prefer Windows. I hope you will not be in anger against your Windows Developper

Windows has also a lot of options to not install what we don't need in a keyboard, for exemple messengers...I think it's what Wersi did. You can make an Windows XP installation with just 150 Mb, the minimal requize. I m using Windows since many years, and it's not a problem to make an optimized pakage.

And don't be affraid, I m working hard on all your difficults, for using all the buttons and slider inside all musical applications. I will probably change some buttons implementation to be more ergonomic when playing live. You know, just choose the sound , and play , regardless of what technology is used, VST, sampler, internal rom sound...

I m very impressed on years of work you did with linux musical software, it is not a simple domain.

Finally, Windows or Linux? The competition between them can only make our OSs better

Choose what you want, and If you like windows, add money loool

I wait impatiently my first gig with MY MediaStation, and I hope it will not hang

Thanks everyone for your responses! I appreciate all the information.

MacAllcock, I have to agree with you that Linux is beginning to look like the simplest solution. I am not able to write any drivers but they are already in place and working fine with the Linux os.

Dan, your project sounds very exciting because while Linux simplicity and stability sound ideally suited for live use with music applications, the sheer number of applications written for Windows XP tends to make one wonder if it would be a viable option. I remember one year ago when you first began your Windows Arranger project with a lot of input from SZ members http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/010212.html . I followed that thread with great interest. Perhaps we should start another thread on that line, developing a new software arranger that can be customized to each user, that way we could get current veiws and see how peoples needs have changed.

Magica Alpha, good to hear from you again. As another Mediastation user, I think that we share the same sentiments “We want the Linux stability, but also the Windows variety.”

Abacus thanks for taking part in this discussion; I was hoping to hear from you. As the owner of a Wersi, you have access to the only other system that seems to be on the same line as the Lionstracs Mediastation. With the largest difference being the platform, Windows XP. Though I researched the Wersi, I was never able to demo one in person.
What are the advantages that you see in using the Windows platform?
What are the drawbacks?
How tightly integrated are the vst plug-ins in the OAS?
Are the vst instruments a part of the Wersi user interface or are they handled like a plug-in in a host program?

Also thanks for that last bit of info on using the midi codes with the buttons and sliders and the midi learn function. I am not sure if Dan2000 or Lionstracs have already incorporating this or not.

Trident thanks for the input. It is definitely Linux for now, but I guess that the Windows mediastation application will have to be a “wait and see.”

Lionstracs please keep participating in this forum. Asking actual gigging musicians is the only way to know what they truly need and want. I greatly appreciate you developing the Win XP version of the Mediastation. It will super to have the option on boot up of choosing which OS you prefer. It is this type of innovation that will put Lionstracs among the top of the music industry.

Dan, I missed your last post. You must have posted about the same time as I did. I think that the work that you are doing is great! Please continue it! I think that Domenik chose the right platform to begin with, but your work may prove to be an even better way to increase the flexibilty of the Mediastation.

Keep up the good work!

Richard

Dear

FORUM about OS is very interesting. I thing, that in next years will be a lot of new things in keyboard market.

I'm very happy to see that is so many good things made in WINDOWS and LINUX.

DAN your work is great. I’m impressive in connection of buttons in windows. Good is that WINDOWS system needs less RAM. I’m having installation with windows in my MS Windows are running on 135 MB. But I’m having problem with some drivers. I also purge complete system and also not used drivers. Platform is working well.

When I saw that you developed all drivers I did not sleep. Please let me know if you will find some new things.

Regard VST’s I can tell that they are good and I can open and close them as buttons with all performance but in LINUX. So here we can find same protocol also for WINDOWS.