btweengigs. Yes you are correct the i3 & i30 have upto 6 Chord Riff variations. These can be changed by the user to play a certain Riff when playing a certain chord. Korg normally program 3 chord Riff changes in most of their styles.

Not sure if they continued this option though on the PA80 ??. Peraps U-Dave can tell us.

Graham UK

Dave,

On the i30, a style such as "The Duke" won't sound good on a 12 bar blues. Most of the Big Band styles won't work on 12 bar blues. Neither will any of the 16 bar loops. However, for Satin Doll it really shines while playing my sax or singing. It also goes great with Sunny Side Of The street and a few others. It's probably more of a Jazzier sound than most entertainer vocalist will want to use.

I'm a horn blower. So, my taste will be different than most anyone here on the forum. I don't like any of the styles on any keyboard for 12 bar blues up tempo. I just have a couple I've learned to live with. I'm talking uptempo 12 bar blues like Sonny Rollins and Dexter Gordon the sax masters do. Not the "Shake Rattle and Roll" and "Rockin Robin" 12 bar blues. The 4 bar loops are made for these tunes and yes I do these tunes.

Being a horn improvising enthusiasts, I must emphasize the 4 bar loops just don't cut it.

I do a lot of Steve Tyrell's tunes using just the bass and drums. I set the keyboard for piano and I like playing the keyboard in a jazz guitar program to accompany the vocals I do. There are 4 bar loops I use for this and they work well.

When I comment I comment from the horn blower side. You'll never get me to agree on 4 bar loops for much of the stuff I do on the sax. It offers no kick or motivation for horn players who improvise.

When doing vocals you make the melody stand out. When playing a horn and doing a lot of improvising, the 16 bar loops offer much more motivation to inspire one in jazz improvisation.

Even on the Sinatra stuff, you won't find any 4 bar loops on his tunes. The horn licks, drum fills, kicks, guitar and strings voices are all over the place. Of course they are placed where they belong.

With arranger 16 bar loop styles, the accents are fixed and won't work on some tunes. However, they are very refreshing when I stand up and toot my sax. That is why some of the 16 bar loops which are mostly on the jazz stuff will only work on some particular tunes because of the added licks, kicks etc. being fixed

Playing just melody for 3 choruses with 4 bar loops would drive me out of music quicker than just using 4 bar loops for every tune.

If I could understand sound equipment as well as improvisation I wouldn't need to aggravate you folks with all of my stupid sound equipment questions.

Again the 4 bar loops work well in a strictly vocal environment. I want to improvise and I find the refreshing 16 bar loop styles much more invigorating while jamming on my sax. I'm sure any horn players here will agree.

I don't expect the vocalist to agree but perhaps a few do. This is not ment to be a put down of vocalist. This is a post hoping to explain my viewpoint from a frustrated old jazz musician that sees my music dying.

Most of the young kids don't even like what most of you are doing. They like rap.

My son is 24 and would flip over DonM. Here is the son of a jazz enthusiast and he likes all the new country music like Don keeps up with.

Don's my buddy. When I get around him I'm a bad influence. I hit some jazz licks on his tunes. But he seems to enjoy it. After we played at his gig he took me over to the Ramada to jam with some friends. He built me, and I have to admit he made me feel good.
Boo

Don't froget I'm a part time vocalist and I do maybe 15 or so country tunes. I like "Friends In Low Places" and "She Thinks I Still Care". So I mean no harm. I just wish you guys would play "Cheesecake", Doxy and a few jazz tunes. Ha! Ha!

I love mixing in jazz standards into my sets, but I need to know that the crowd will understand, or at least - APPRECIATE them. You can get away with Green Dolphin St, or How High The Moon, but try "Killer Joe" or "Joy Spring" (BTW - both have vocal arrangements by Manhatten Transfer that are awesome !) and you'll get a lot of weird stares, unless your crowd is on the hip side.

Machines are what they are, and whether it's 4 bars, 16 bars or more ... they will always have a degree of monotony. The inspriation has to come from within. Don't expect an arranger pattern to inspire you to blow great improv solos. Ain't gonna happen ! You gotta feel it INSIDE before you can push it OUTSIDE the horn.

On a side note - did you make your impulse purchase yet Boo? I know you're dying to spend some of that Scaffold money !

[This message has been edited by Uncle Dave (edited 08-22-2003).]

Dave,

Admittedly nothing is going to inspire me like Playing live with SonnyG and Jack Ness, but I really appreciate the 16 bar loop styles a million times more than the 4 bar loop stuff for tooting my flute with the recorded sequences.

Maybe I was too harsh on the Mackie 808S a while back about the humming noise. I was already very annoyed about the fan noise and the humming noise on the Behringer PMX 2000 by the time I tried the Mackie.

The guy didn't call back about the scaffold. Maybe I'll hear from him Monday hopefully. But I went ahead and ordered the Mackie this afternoon. Music 123 gave me the best deal.

Besides, Mackie has the most power after reading about all of that ohm stuff that I really still don't understand. Also, Mackie's reputation is second to none. I hope the manual is useful in explaing about bridge mode etc.

I figured if the local folk, especially the musicians saw a Mackie 808S, they would know I'm serious about music and my sound. It has to look a lot better than some of the other stuff when sitting on the band stand too. Like you Dave, I wasn't impressed with any of the effects on any of the Yamahas I tried. I just may try the Mackie C300's if I sell the scaffold.

Maybe all powered mixers hum a bit and I'm just too picky. I figured if the wife says I'm hard of hearing because the TV's too loud, the Mackie humming is too loud too. Then again maybe I like loud when the Redskins are Playing the Eagles or the Cowboys or the Saints or the Broncos or the beavers or the whoevers.

They will ship the Mackie Monday. They said I should get it in 3 to 5 days in Colorado.
I feel some relief.

Did I mention I have a gig at the Two Rivers Convention in Grand Junction on the 11th of Sept. Hope I get some other gigs this time around. It's for the Western slope Contractors Association. It's a big place. I don't have any idea how many people will be there. It's supposed to be 50's to 70's age group.

I should be able to please some of them with all of the standards I do. I won't do Cheesecake. I'll stick with Fats, Steve Tyrell and other old 50's Rock and Roll. No heavy jazz stuff.

I won't be boring you guys for a while with all my jazz talk. I need to practice.

You better learn some Willie and Merle.
DonM

Don,

I do "On the road Again" I think that's it for Wille. I do "I'm gonna love you forever" and "Friends in low places". That's the newest country stuff I know man. Oh I do "Crazy" too. That's my big country tunes. I do "Pretty woman" too. Most people call that rock and roll. I call it country. Ha! Ha!
Don did you get my cajun Boudreaux joke.

Funny ... I do "Forever and Ever, Amen !"

Boo, I got the joke!
The really hot country song right now, as far as my audiences go, is "Whiskey For My Men, Beer For My Horses". Willie and Toby Keith do it together.
I no longer try to keep up with all the new C&W songs. I just learn the ones I like and the most requested.
DonM

Don,

My son helped me a few weeks back lay brick. Everytime the beer for my horses song came on, I had to turn the cement mixer off so we could listen to it. Before we can set scaffold , brick or make cement, he has to get the extension cord and radio out of the truck. It's no wonder he likes the country stuff, every kid he went to school with wore cowboy boots.

Dave, sorry about the wrong title. I'm pretty bad for that.

I might just have to learn ... "It's 5:00 somewhere" since Jimmy Buffett is on the track. It's got a good, fun beat...even though I don't like to advocate drinking. I'll probably learn it anyway. Margaritaville never bothered me.