Found this on the General Discussion Forum by Analogcontrolfreak:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZEGHnAxEpo

SMF? Faking? Or? You be the judge!



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-16-2006).]

No comment from me Donny.

then why even post a reply?

Craig........................

This post has been edited 8-16-06

I remember watching this live on tv. The Stevie song "Go Home" is on the In Square Circle album. I bought the tape(yes tape!) because I had read in Keyboard mag. at the time, that all the songs had used the Synclavier almost exclusively. I had so wanted to hear this instrument from everything I had read about it's incredible samples/sounds. I think if you listen to the song Overjoyed from that album, it holds up sonically with any electronic sound source made today. As an aside Earl Klugh plays the guitar parts on Overjoyed. Why they didn't use the Synclavier for the gtr. parts? Hmm..I dunno..

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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=235791
www.mychrisvalenti.com

[This message has been edited by Chris Valenti (edited 08-16-2006).]

You can never judge anything from such material. I do know that Herbie Hancock is using an Oberheim to modulate his (Sennheiser) Vocoder with. I see Oberheims but couldn't detect the Vocoder - but that means nothing. But I can see that the notes I hear from Hancock is not what he is playing.
Stevie is certainly singing live, because you can hear the soundengineer in trouble.
If they are faking for the most parts, I would understand - to do this live in 1985 is tough.

OMG......... I actually remember watching this live (and I don't remember THAT much from the 80s - don't ask!!) and going 'FINALLY...... a little love for the keyboard players!'

What a lineup - for the mid-80s, this was everyone who was anyone! Remember, at the time, keyboard pop dominated the charts, Oberheims and Prophet 5s were the equivalent of $8-10k in today's dollars, not to mention the astronomic Synclaviers and Fairlights.......

OK, OK, it's mostly fake and sequenced, but what awards show isn't? Would YOU like to have had the task of mixing (and tuning!) this performance......?!!

Just a clip from "When Keyboards RULED the World......."

(We still do, only no-one acknowledges it any more!)

Shhhh...Not so loud Scott might be listening ; besides he has the flu

Discovered it was 'food poisoning' (not the flu afterall) from dining out at a new (Salvadorian) restaurant. Finally coming back to life here.

As far as the SMFs & musician performance fakery go, I think I've already CLEARLY VOICED that I concur with Uncle Dave's sentiments. As far as the 1985 all star keyboardist video clip performance goes, it's (I'd assume) ACKNOWLEDGED by the entire audience (and general public) that all these guys CAN PLAY, so in the context of such a Vegas style VISUAL extravaganza awards show, whatever fakery (if any of it really was): tolerable, just to have the opportunity to see these guys appear together on ONE stage together. On the other hand, if I'd paid my GOOD money to see any of these guys at a LIVE MUSIC concert, and found out they were 'faking' their keyboard playing or lip syncing, I'd be the first to demand a refund. No Milli Vannelli for me. - Scott

Discovered it was 'food poisoning' (not the flu afterall) from dining out at a new (Salvadorian) restaurant. - Scott[/QUOTE]

OMG..What the heck did you eat there?



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-16-2006).]

Well, Scott, if I were you, I wouldn't go and see ANY pop music show by an artist under 30. Tapes, sequencing and loops are a fundamental part of any big tour, these days. I even met a young(-ish) man the other day who used to sing under the stage for Toto, back in the day. Whenever the lead singer's voice was shot, they flew him into the mix!! Multi-million dollar tours cannot afford to have a bad night for ANY reason. Do you think Destiny's Child (or ANY dance artist) can dance THAT vigorously, and still sing well?

And don't get me started about country music, the most Beat Dectective'd, Auto-Tuned music on the planet!

And finally, lest we all forget, an arranger is nothing BUT fakery........ only the parts you play yourself have any more musical honesty than Milli Vanilli.

Diki, excactly...AGREED!!!!

Great post!

Wow, this subject faking is really taking off. Years back we were not sure if a singer was mouthing or singing, so our attention was brought to the singers neck. If there was no strain they were not singing, then they were condemned in the publics eye. Not much of a test.

We have now become extremely liberal, if it works for you do it. If the job requires faking – do it. Do whatever it requires.
Sounds right, I think, Hmmmm!
Barbara Strisand (spelling?) did her concert in the park – The music, solo and background was beautiful. Violins, guitars, drums, basses, ect --- At the end of her show she introduced six musicians and said, “All the music you have heard tonight came from these musicians. A got a small bill for musician and a large electric bill”.

Who’s winning here? Who’s losing here”

I feel there are fewer musicians who have mastered their instrument today – but we do have many more fakers. Personally I would travel a distance to hear a accomplished musician, one who has put his in his time and effort.

I do apologies to those using the background for their performance, this post is not meant to do that. We do the best with what we are given. We do what we have to do earn $$$. It’s not only music, I remember buying a Hersey chocolate bar that tasted like chocolate, that is before they started using plastic or whatever to preserve their product.

IMHO, John C.

Yes of course! But it's exactly THOSE supposedly played 'keyboard parts' that are only FAKED in which I so distain. Utilizing SMFs, sequences, or auto accompaniment is fine, but when a performer insists on FAKING his/her playing itself (melody line) then this shouldn't be billed as a live concert, but entertainment for entertainment sake only, and perhaps should be more aptly booked as a comedy, mime, karoake, or lip sycing act, not a LIVE music concert. - Scott

Scott, nowadays, about the only thing billed is the performer's name (sometimes not even that!). I'm sure that you don't go out billed as 'Scott Yee and his Arranger' or 'Scott Yee with auto-accompaniment'. My money is on 'Scott Yee'.

So does anyone who comes and sees your show get a refund if they say 'but I thought I was going to see an all live show'? Hell, no....... you just go 'this is how I perform'. Just because you ARE playing the parts you are playing, doesn't mean you ARE playing the parts you are not, and to anyone other than an arranger player there is no difference. They are hearing something you are not doing live.

SMF, arranger play, totally faking it (karaoke or Jessica Simpson!), it's all the same as long as it entertains, and if it doesn't entertain, well, it doesn't matter if you play every last darn note............

Excactly

Dikki: I myself am billed as a: vocalist- keyboard musician, and that's exactly what I deliver. In my shows, All of the keyboard (piano) parts heard from my keyboard (as expected) I perform LIVE. Drums, bass and rhythm section parts supplied by the auto accomp traditionally don't emunate from a keyboard, so my audiences "fully realize" this to be what it is: auto accomp backing tracks merely to support my LIVE playing & singing. When I play solo leads or left hand bass lines, it's visually, pretty obvious to everyone, that I'm playing that, and not the drums or other auto accomp parts.


If it's a big stage production act such as the entertainers (including dancing, choreography & visuals)as you mentioned like Destiny's Child, etc, the audience may be a lot more forgiving, but in a much smaller (intimate) venue of which (I believe) most of us arranger players here(one man band/duo) acts do, lights, glitz & theatrical pyrotechnics don't dominate, and venues where people come specifically to appreciate live music by musicians, they deserve to be actually hearing us "play" not fake, the instrument they come to see us performing on.

As far as DNJ's argument that's it's all about making the big buck and doing whatever it takes to make the audience happy . . . sorry, that way just isn't my style. I'm well over 30 afterall. - Scott

Very well said Scott, you definitely have a point.

There is miming and faking every where and we all know it, but as an example if you hire someome as in a one man band keyboardist for your wedding and he is blaitently faking everything and all the leads that you assume he is playing himself, then thats pathetic. you might as well have just saved the money and wack on CDs all night.

Nick